What’s the mileage.

 

23000

 

Gearbox is not due a service then.

 

I know

 

How long have you had the car? Has this issue suddenly happened or have you been experiencing it since day 1? Have you driven automatics before this one?

 

Been noticing it a while, only automatic ive owned.

 

I think I remember the old thread. This car is I believe running XHP stage 3 which changes and loosens up some of the box settings. I would suggest it isn’t the box that is the problem, it’s the map.

 

Im XHP stage 2 now as 3 was a bit too harsh.

 

Right its 100% percent slipping from 2nd to 3rd gear at medium throttle, jumps about 400rpm.

Any idea of possibilities at all? Looking at a new box arent i? 😔

 

Even if you do end up needing a new box, they aren't that much used due to being so reliable.

BMW 2 Series M140i M240i Gearbox automatic | eBay

BMW 2 Series M140i M240i Gearbox automatic 2016 BMW 2 Series M240i Gearbox automatic as shown in good used condition. 2016 BMW 2 Series M240i Gearbox automatic as shown in good uséd condition. © Torque Motors.

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Err have you tried removing the map or am I being dense?

 

If you explain to me how a map that worked fine originally has now decided to slip the gears between 2nd and 3rd then yeh i can disable XHP entirely, but...even after flashing various stages of said map the car is exactly the same, its a mechanical fault, not a software fault.

 

I would think you need to have the fault investigated by a specialist rather than ask on here.

 

Your probably right, just didnt know if anyone had had anything similar cant find a single thing online.

Ive flashed to XHP stage 1 now and it didnt do it this morning BUT if you accelerate moderately in 'traction' it changes up higher rather than the 2k is usually would, the fault was usually during ab upshift at moderate throttle just under 2k.

 

I wonder if you could find someone local to you with a similar configuration, try the exact same driving conditions and see if it does the same. Perhaps you are doing something specific that is causing the torque converter to randomly unlock and slip.

Perhaps it's worth having the box serviced, ideally by an authorised ZF service centre, cheaper than a new box.

 

Ain't there an option in xHP to help with clutch slip? You can also change the torque values so less power is pulling through the clutch between shifts

 

Sorry to see these issues, but if there was ever a bunch of posts that prove the negative affects of messing about with and modding cars, it's all of your posts since you joined!!

My car has been stock for 6 years other than an intake, and no issues at all other than dodgy handling when mixing tyres. Your posts really put me off getting a remap, XHP, and any other modes from now on.

Get rid of XHP and run it stock for a while and see what happens. Even get your remap off and see if that helps - if the box is fine when the car is stock then you have your answer.

 

Didn't someone post similar complaints recently then delete all their posts shortly after? All the flashing, remapping and subsequent issues I see puts me right off upgrading to a 1/2/440i.

 

They're quick enough in stock form to not need any remaps, and the ZF8 is just fine as it is. Moving from a 130i to a 140i would be a huge upgrade IMO. Keep it stock and it's as reliable as you will get.

 

It's not so much that I'm wanting to remap, it's the difficulty in finding one that hasn't been messed with before, then I'll inherit the problem of proving it's stock and always has been come resale time. Even approved used seems to be a bit of a minefield despite dealers claiming their cars are fully stock.

The market is ridiculous just now too so I'll probably need to wait until people start bailing out of their PCPs over the winter. And hope I've still got a job 😂

 

It's not so much that I'm wanting to remap, it's the difficulty in finding one that hasn't been messed with before, then I'll inherit the problem of proving it's stock and always has been come resale time. Even approved used seems to be a bit of a minefield despite dealers claiming their cars are fully stock.

The market is ridiculous just now too so I'll probably need to wait until people start bailing out of their PCPs over the winter. And hope I've still got a job 😂

You need to buy mine when I come to sell, which looking at fuel prices currently may not be too far into the future. Have to drive it to London next week due to train strikes and it used to cost about £60 in fuel. It's now going to be more like £120-130 and its only me and my daughter.

Apart from an intake, it's bone stock, 34k miles, older owner who barely gets time to drive it other than pootling about with the kids in and almost every option possible.

 

So ive had a reply from ZF. They are suggesting due to the quickcharge pressures all being negative it could potentially be the clutch discs are swollen which could be caused by coolant leaking into the transmission via the oil cooler.

Obviously thats not for certain but im having slow coolant loss aswell, could all be linked!! If thats the fault the modifications have had zero impact on it happening its just bad luck.

Now to decide who on earth can check this for me.

 

Sounds like you need to visit @williams for a ZF HP70 upgrade

 

Thats on the cards if it needs replacing, makes the most logical sense really.

 

jesus christ some scaremongering in here, there is literally thousands of people running XHP and maps, I can personally say I ran an M140i with XHP stage 3 and stage 1 MHD for over 40k HARD miles and never ever missed a beat. The XHP transformed the car and was worth every single penny for them tens of thousands of miles, I regret not getting it all done sooner to be fair

In the absolute worst case scenario of something going wrong on the pretty much bulletproof ZF8 and B58 then parts are cheap as mentioned above! There is so many cars with the engine now that parts are readily available and cheap to replace.

On a separate note im now running XHP stage 3 on an S55/DCT car and stage 1 mapping and guess what? its been absolutely spot on for thousands of miles and again has transformed the car into a much better car.

Hope you get it sorted OP but would not let one case out of thousands of people put anyone off, standard parts do go wrong and have manufacturing issues as well....

 

jesus christ some scaremongering in here, there is literally thousands of people running XHP and maps, I can personally say I ran an M140i with XHP stage 3 and stage 1 MHD for over 40k HARD miles and never ever missed a beat. The XHP transformed the car and was worth every single penny for them tens of thousands of miles, I regret not getting it all done sooner to be fair

In the absolute worst case scenario of something going wrong on the pretty much bulletproof ZF8 and B58 then parts are cheap as mentioned above! There is so many cars with the engine now that parts are readily available and cheap to replace.

On a separate note im now running XHP stage 3 on an S55/DCT car and stage 1 mapping and guess what? its been absolutely spot on for thousands of miles and again has transformed the car into a much better car.

Hope you get it sorted OP but would not let one case out of thousands of people put anyone off, standard parts do go wrong and have manufacturing issues as well....

Scaremongering? Is the original poster lying? Was Dizzy when he complained of the same? Are those that complain of issues after engine mapping also just talking ****e then? If you have experience of modding cars like I do and it seems 120 above you will accept that you can have fast, cheap or reliable, pick any two. I’m happy you have been lucky but I won’t cry if yours blows up though since you probably need a reality check.

ps for 140fans benefit, I don’t consider the MP LSD a mod since it’s dealer fit and it’s covered by warranty.

 

I'm not anti mod, I have an intake on my 240 but nothing else, mainly because I can't be arsed any more.

However, my previous Focus ST was fully modded (performance, suspension, remap etc) and was running 320bhp. It was only 2 years old with 25k miles but the mods caused so many problems I ended up back to stock and flogging it.

The torque from the remap buggered up the clutch so when the weather was wet/cold or both (oddly) it would slip really badly. I even lost a race to a riced up Civic once due to slipping.

Intercooler caused issues, extra power knackered the front wishbones which had oil filled bushes. ABS sensor went due to lowered suspension.

The list goes on. The mods did improve the car in the areas it was lacking, but it was at the sake of everything else. The only way to counter the mods was to spend another £5k on the stuff that needed uprating - RS clutch, forged front wishbones, changes to the intake and intercooler and a strengthened engine block to avoid cracking - none of that was worth doing on a FWD that was hopeless in anything other than bone dry summer.

Even with 320bhp it wouldn't have stood a chance against my 240 in any weather.

 

Depends on the car. Thats why i always research into each car before modding. Some cars its asking for trouble, others its no issue.

 

I've modded nearly every car I've owned since 1990, and whilst it's normally made them faster, louder or handle better there has always been a compromise somewhere, whether it's comfort, reliability or just living with it daily.

I can't think of any mods that have actually improved every aspect of the car.

As Padders says, manufacturers spend millions getting things right in the first place.

 

I dont think anyone said at any point that mods improve every aspect of the car?

However since you asked, the following mods for me have had zero negative impact on the car:

Better dampers and springs - Comfier than stock, better damping, better handling, zero impact to wear of any kind, no NVH increase.

LSD - Zero increase in NVH, more predictable, better grip.

Bcs mid pipe, louder than stock but just as quiet and refined in comfort.

Rear subframe inserts, much less subframe movement, zero NVH increase to my ears, more tied down at the back.

Wider/lighter alloys, more direct handling, ability to run wider tyres, zero increase in NVH, better track width.

Remaps will reduce longetivity but if the engine/box are generally solid they will only reduce it slightly and not in most owners lifetime with the car. Also bare in mind you rarely use 450bhp just like you rarely use 335 so its not like suddenly your actually using an extra 115bhp non stop, its rarely.

 

Think this is getting a bit off topic, we all mod our cars for our own reasons, I do it because it's what I enjoy, I'm not modding anything to "make it better" (maybe some things) I'm just doing it because "I can" so if that means making something worse or then having to replace factory parts.. il take the gamble thanks

 

Surely the only goal of modding something is to make it faster, handle better, sound better, or look better.

 

This is the only post I've ever seen with someone having any problems at all with the zf8 speed with these cars that includes m135i and m140i. Theres people dailying huge power on these cars with no problems it's unheard of. My car is modified and I've never had a problem and i drive it hard weekly rev it to redline in multiple gears. My last car a mk3 focus rs shat its engine at 375bhp. These cars though if you hear of a problem it stands for probably 0.1% of the community

 

Can’t help but shake your head at the fact people jump straight on modifications and speculating a gearbox map from a well known and respected company has caused what appears to be a totally unrelated issue on a ZF8. A box that in it’s many guises is one of, if not the most widely used and reliable gearboxes in the vehicle industry. A gearbox map raises torque limits and increases clutch pack clamping pressures. So I’m intrigued to see how that would have caused the rev flairing issues described. That’s a lack of clamping pressure or like ZF have eluded to the clutch friction material is contaminated.

If you don’t want to modify that’s your choice. What I don’t then understand is why then go on and try and scaremonger about why it’s not good to do so. I’ve modified 99% of the cars over owned. Sometimes things fail, is it 100% linked to modifying? Who knows? If a part fails who’s to say it wouldn’t have failed even if you didn’t modify? Yes you could argue it helped it along. My last RS3 had stage 1 software when I bought. I had an injector fail after having MRC stage 1 software flashed on. Was it a ****ty generic map that it had previously? Was it that caused the injector to fail and the MRC map producing more power pushed it over the edge and highlighted the issues? Or was it just the fact VAG injectors are known to fail and it’s just one of those things? I replaced all 5 and the car was perfect after and for 20k miles of hard driving after that. Parts fail standard or modified. If you buy a performance car you have to expect to shell out cash on maintenance and failures anyway.

I would be less inclined to buy a performance car that’s had the bare minimum maintenance done than one that been modified and maintained religiously in place of the manufactures specified intervals.

 

Can’t help but shake your head at the fact people jump straight on modifications and speculating a gearbox map from a well knows and respected company has caused what appears to be a totally unrelated issue on a ZF8. A box that in it’s many guises is one of, if not the most widely used and reliable gearboxes in the vehicle industry. A gearbox map raises torque limits and increases clutch pack clamping pressures. So I’m intrigued to see how that would have caused the rev flairing issues described. That’s a lack of clamping pressure or like ZF have eluded to the clutch friction material is contaminated.

If you don’t want to modify that’s your choice. What I don’t then understand is why then go on and try and scaremonger about why it’s not good to do so. I’ve modified 99% of the cars over owned. Sometimes things fail, is it 100% linked to modifying? Who knows? If a part fails who’s to say it wouldn’t have failed even if you didn’t modify? Yes you could argue it helped it along. My last RS3 had stage 1 software when I bought. I had an injector fail after having MRC stage 1 software flashed on. Was it a ****ty generic map that it had previously? Was it that caused the injector to fail and the MRC map producing more power pushed it over the edge and highlighted the issues? Or was it just the fact VAG injectors are known to fail and it’s just one of those things? I replaced all 5 and the car was perfect after and for 20k miles of hard driving after that. Parts fail standard or modified. If you buy a performance car you have to expect to shell out cash on maintenance and failures anyway.

I would be less inclined to buy a performance car that’s had the bare minimum maintenance done than one that been modified and maintained religiously in place of the to manufactures specified intervals.

Amen 🙏

 

Trying to distil this thread down (there having been long essays about the rights and wrongs of ‘modding’ ) it seems we have a clear consensus on the way forward with the original issue:

Remove the map and see if the problem is still there. If not I guess leave it unmapped and enjoy. If it persists seek out a new box.

 

You guys are deluded if you really believe that modding a car has no downsides to reliability or longevity.

Nothing wrong with modding, I’ve built and modded every car I’ve had since 1989, every single one.

But I’m under no illusion that it doesn’t change the stress levels on components. This issue may not be related to XHP, but throwing out nonsense that mods don’t or won’t cause issues is misleading at best.

Eyes wide open, keep modding, but be realistic that suddenly remapping an engine from 340bhp to 420bhp is going to be detrimental at some point in its life.

The same with XHP - removing torque limits added to protect the box may be fine, but in the long term it won’t. You may not care, it may be 10 years before that happens. But please don’t say third party maps don’t cause any issues.

 

No one is deluded here, I can’t see anyone saying tuning doesn’t have any downside. It’s just people trying to give some balance to the doom and gloom outlook.

Torque limits are not soley in place due to the fact the ZF clutch packs gear sets and other components can't handle. They are also there to help drivabilty, so that the clamping pressure doesn't have to be as high and delay the full engagement of the clutch packs so that they slip slighty to smoothly engage the next gear. All a gearbox map does is increse the limits, the clamping pressures, speed up the clutch engagment and reduce clutch slip. So surely if anything it's beneficial as there is less clutch pack wear and in turn less clutch friction material in the gear box oil and less heat genrated from slippage? Yes there comes a point when the clutch packs and components will struggle with the torque, not very likely at stage 1 or 2 torque levels.

Speaking of torque limits the DQ-500 in the RS3 has a torque limit from factory of 600nm. Hank Iroz only started stripping gears and causing damage at around 1200nm and hundreds of 1/4 mile prepped surface launches. All that after changing every other weak link in the drivetrain. A torque limit is not really an indicator of overall gearbox reliability.

Demonising third party software for something lack of maintenace could equally cause in the same time frame is not the best agrument against modifying.

I don't see how even an 80bhp increase is drastically detrimental on an engine that can handle 600bhp long term. Sure tune it to any power and keep manufactures oil change intervals and you MIGHT experience some issues. How many M135i and 140i are tuned and how many experience issues? Yes going to some back street tuner or trying to squeeze willy waving numbers out of a stock turbo or fueling system is asking for issues but well tested software is not a massive gamble. My missus pre LCi M135i has been running 390ish for 40k miles tuned an Ecotune in Glasgow. Granted it has had far more regular servicing intervals and never missed a beat. Generlising and speculating a car is a ticking timebomb due to a bit of tuning is just hearsay. We are not in the 80's anymore, car components, materials used tolarences and oils are for the most part over engineered. You say you have modified every car you have owned but seem to be the most negative person in regards to modifying I have ever seen. I'm confused are you a tuning adovocate or not?

The op stated XHP couldn't see any issues with the parameters in the software. ZF have came back and said it looks like oil/friction material contamination likely coolant. I wonder who know's best? The designers of the software and gearbox or the typical linch mob on an internet forum...

OP I suggest going on ZF's website and looking for an approved service centre near you and have them look at your gearbox. It might be the case if you flash back to stock you might experience more slippage due to less clamping pressure on the clutch packs.

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M140i boxes are usually strong, there is an upgrade, so maybe that could be an option?

Modding is a delicate area but unless you're stupid, we all know it could have adverse affects.

I've had mine tuned to 550bhp 700nm. I'm well aware of what could go wrong, I accept that, I've had to (inevitable, was in the plan) upgrade my manual clutch but accept that and now feel I'm at a stage where, you treat the car with respect, mechanical sympathy, 2 oil changes a year and cross my fingers.

M140ifan, as suggested above, remove everything and go from there but ultimately it could mean you stay standard or investigate by a specialist whats going on. You could be of an unlucky minority.

 

OneTwenty and Padders are the most unhelpful on this forum

 

I don’t recall crossing swords with you on anything on here but if you feel that strongly, there is an ignore function. I suggest you use it.