£2100 for the bmw lsd from harry fairburn bmw in scotland and £200 for fitting, I got it fitted by DW tuning aka shorty on here. He can supply quaife and fit them too

 

I went for the BMW LSD as I spoke to quaife who said their diff wouldn't be good for drifting and advised against me fitting one for track duties. One of our members here has the quaife but reports problems with one wheel drive.

I read here that wavetrack is another option (1600£ from birds) but afraid I know nothing about how it works. Hopefully some of our more knowledgeable members will chip in (Marco )

 

Either are fine, I happen to have the BMWP (Drexler) LSD in mine purely because it came up 2nd hand, going rate is around £1,200 used.

I would be equally happy with a Quaife Torsen though, despite not being warranty friendly.

The Drexler requires a little more maintenance, but locks up preemptively (when torque is applied). The Quaife can bias more than 30%, but is an open diff so doesn't work well if you have one wheel in the air.

Both fine for fast road use, there's no bad choice.

 

Either are fine, I happen to have the BMWP (Drexler) LSD in mine purely because it came up 2nd hand, going rate is around £1,200 used.

I would be equally happy with a Quaife Torsen though, despite not being warranty friendly.

The Drexler requires a little more maintenance, but locks up preemptively (when torque is applied). The Quaife can bias more than 30%, but is an open diff so doesn't work well if you have one wheel in the air.

Both fine for fast road use, there's no bad choice.

 

Either are fine, I happen to have the BMWP (Drexler) LSD in mine purely because it came up 2nd hand, going rate is around £1,200 used.

I would be equally happy with a Quaife Torsen though, despite not being warranty friendly.

The Drexler requires a little more maintenance, but locks up preemptively (when torque is applied). The Quaife can bias more than 30%, but is an open diff so doesn't work well if you have one wheel in the air.

Both fine for fast road use, there's no bad choice.

Hi Marco, thanks for the response. I must admit, I do have an eye out for a good used one. When you say the Drexler/BMW M LSD required a little more maintenance, what exactly does this entail? Then for fitting, are any additional parts required on top of the diff in order to fit it?

Many thanks!

 

Drexler recommend oil changes every 20k, but it's not a big deal, about £15 a time. Easy DIY, you can do it lying behind your car on the driveway in a few minutes. Quaife is more or less sealed for life (50k would be a sensible oil change interval for the sake of the bearings).

Iirc, a used one would need a new 50mm nut, a couple of C clips and a litre of Castrol Syntrax limited slip 75w-140

 

Just to add to MP's post, the reason for the Drexler requiring more maintenance is due to it being a clutch-pack based diff (with wearing components - the clutch packs), whereas the Quaife is a helical gear setup (no wearing components).

 

I went for the bmw option, mainly because of warranty. Cost wise nothing in it as you dont have to exchange your original diff as you would with a quaiff. So come re-sale time get them swapped back for not a lot of money and you'll sell the lsd for £1k+.

With a new car you could lose out if anything goes wrong, not just drive train where the quaiff may invalidate warranty, but say there is any other fault that forces the car to be rejected, if you have swapped the diff what are you going to do? Just write it off?

 

I had my Quaife supplied and installed by Litchfield and it transforms the way the car handles.
Not sure why Quaife would say it's not suitable for track use as it was mega at Bedford. Other people from here have commented how progressive and controllable slides looked and that's down to the Quaife.
I understand if you like kerb hopping and end up lifting one wheel you might temporarily lose drive, but in reality I don't think you'd ever notice.
There's a photo of my car on the Bedford 17th Feb thread where it looks like my inside rear is just clear of the ground, (which I personally don't think it properly was), but if it was, I never noticed any strange effects from the Quaife.

 

I had my Quaife supplied and installed by Litchfield and it transforms the way the car handles.
Not sure why Quaife would say it's not suitable for track use as it was mega at Bedford. Other people from here have commented how progressive and controllable slides looked and that's down to the Quaife.
I understand if you like kerb hopping and end up lifting one wheel you might temporarily lose drive, but in reality I don't think you'd ever notice.
There's a photo of my car on the Bedford 17th Feb thread where it looks like my inside rear is just clear of the ground, (which I personally don't think it properly was), but if it was, I never noticed any strange effects from the Quaife.

Godzilla - yr feedback about QLSD ATB - not getting out of shape on track - was same as mine [pre-LCI M135i 5dr QLSD fitted by Birds as part of their B1S pack 2 for adaptive cars].

OP - as Marco P has said already, either MP, W'trac of QLSD will be a stark improvement over the std open diff in yr car just now.

BP

 

I had my Quaife supplied and installed by Litchfield and it transforms the way the car handles.
Not sure why Quaife would say it's not suitable for track use as it was mega at Bedford. Other people from here have commented how progressive and controllable slides looked and that's down to the Quaife.
I understand if you like kerb hopping and end up lifting one wheel you might temporarily lose drive, but in reality I don't think you'd ever notice.
There's a photo of my car on the Bedford 17th Feb thread where it looks like my inside rear is just clear of the ground, (which I personally don't think it properly was), but if it was, I never noticed any strange effects from the Quaife.

I too find the quaife pretty good on track and progressive when sliding. The lifting a wheel part isn't an issue either from what I can understand, as if the quaife is unable to work due to a lifted wheel, there's still the e-diff to help tame the unweighted wheel.

 

I had my Quaife supplied and installed by Litchfield and it transforms the way the car handles.
Not sure why Quaife would say it's not suitable for track use as it was mega at Bedford. Other people from here have commented how progressive and controllable slides looked and that's down to the Quaife.
I understand if you like kerb hopping and end up lifting one wheel you might temporarily lose drive, but in reality I don't think you'd ever notice.
There's a photo of my car on the Bedford 17th Feb thread where it looks like my inside rear is just clear of the ground, (which I personally don't think it properly was), but if it was, I never noticed any strange effects from the Quaife.

I too find the quaife pretty good on track and progressive when sliding. The lifting a wheel part isn't an issue either from what I can understand, as if the quaife is unable to work due to a lifted wheel, there's still the e-diff to help tame the unweighted wheel.

That's a very good point. The theory is the Quaife won't work when one wheel has zero traction as it will feed all the power to that one, but the E-LSD would apply the brakes to a completely unladen wheel (in DTC Off mode anyway) so would give the Quaife something to work against.
In reality, how long would one wheel be in the air for anyway?
For a dedicated track car, you wouldn't go with an ATB diff, but for fast road and occasional track use, it's more than good enough.

As I said elsewhere, I love how it now allows TC Off (short press of the button) to work nicely now. Enough slip to allow a quarter to half a turn of oppo before stepping in, whereas with the open diff it was interfering far too early.
I haven't tried it in Sport Plus mode as I've gotten out of the habit of using that mode, but I bet it makes that more fun too.

 

Personally I think both options are great upgrades.

On the warranty front, unless it's actually the diff itself that goes bang, it is almost impossible for any inspection to pick up the quaife internals. It's almost how quaife became so popular, apparently the quaife passed the rally car scrutineering in classes where LSD were prohibited. The test at the time was to rotate one wheel by hand, and in normal open diff operation, the other wheel would either stay still or rotate in the opposite direction. They then changed the test to jacking up one wheel and trying to drive. Most LSD will drag the other wheel round in the same direction. The quaife acted just like the open diff in these tests.

So if there was a gearbox or engine failure, unless the diff cover was opened, the quaife would be invisible. There is no reason to open the diff cover for a engine or gearbox failure. The diff needs to come out for this too.

Regarding costs, you are missing that you can also recover money back on a used quaife. BMW dealerships often sell off delivery mileage diffs when MP LSD are fitted. Cotswold sell them for as little as £100-150. By the time you sell your car, the scrapyards will be full of cheap diffs anyway. So although a spare diff is not part of the quaife deal, you can acquire one cheap enough to recover some cost.

I do laugh at the people that mention a quaife with the wheel in the air is as useless as an open diff. Well yes but how often do you want maximum traction whilst one rear wheel is flying through the air? And if you are lifting an inside rear wheel often enough to be causing an issue, I think you'd have a bigger chassis problem to solve than how the diff behaves.

Someone mentioned quaife not recommending their TB diff for tracks. Nonsense, I spoke to quaife at the autosport show a month ago. They work very well on track, but are not the best at drifting.....but then neither is the bmw lsd with 30% lock. You want a far more aggressive 2 way diff for drifting.....together with a hydraulic hand brake. Anyway, my F30 performs well on track with the quaife, but it is the street where it is most noticeable. One wheel over a slippery wet manhole cover? No issues, the other wheel continues to push you forward, without TC flickers.

As I say, both diff types would suit me, and probably you too. As quaife can be done for as little as £1250 to me, that is a grand cheaper than BMW's MP diff, so probably my route again on my m lite.

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Is it true bmw dont offer the m performance diff for manual cars anymore

 

Is it true bmw dont offer the m performance diff for manual cars anymore

No?

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...mw/enUS/showparts?id=1W92-EUR-12_2015_F21N_BMW_M140i&diagId=03_1127#33108659987

 

Going off what motech and joe said on youtube yesterday

circ 2.16

 

Hi Guys,

Looking for some advice from the experts amongst you here, and those with experience. I currently have an M140i Auto on order, and know from previous vehicles that an LSD will be a welcome addition. Question is, should I just save the hassle and add it to my build or get the car then have Birds fit the Quaife. I would like to know if there are any differences in how they operate (I read on another post 30% lock on power from the M - Performance?) and in how they feel.

Obviously there is the advantage of the BMW LSD keeping any warranty and not requiring your standard diff as a donor (correct me if wrong). It would be interesting to hear the best prices people have obtained on either, as well as any comments over this.

Personally I think both options are great upgrades.

On the warranty front, unless it's actually the diff itself that goes bang, it is almost impossible for any inspection to pick up the quaife internals. It's almost how quaife became so popular, apparently the quaife passed the rally car scrutineering in classes where LSD were prohibited. The test at the time was to rotate one wheel by hand, and in normal open diff operation, the other wheel would either stay still or rotate in the opposite direction. They then changed the test to jacking up one wheel and trying to drive. Most LSD will drag the other wheel round in the same direction. The quaife acted just like the open diff in these tests.

So if there was a gearbox or engine failure, unless the diff cover was opened, the quaife would be invisible. There is no reason to open the diff cover for a engine or gearbox failure. The diff needs to come out for this too.

Regarding costs, you are missing that you can also recover money back on a used quaife. BMW dealerships often sell off delivery mileage diffs when MP LSD are fitted. Cotswold sell them for as little as £100-150. By the time you sell your car, the scrapyards will be full of cheap diffs anyway. So although a spare diff is not part of the quaife deal, you can acquire one cheap enough to recover some cost.

I do laugh at the people that mention a quaife with the wheel in the air is as useless as an open diff. Well yes but how often do you want maximum traction whilst one rear wheel is flying through the air? And if you are lifting an inside rear wheel often enough to be causing an issue, I think you'd have a bigger chassis problem to solve than how the diff behaves.

Someone mentioned quaife not recommending their TB diff for tracks. Nonsense, I spoke to quaife at the autosport show a month ago. They work very well on track, but are not the best at drifting.....but then neither is the bmw lsd with 30% lock. You want a far more aggressive 2 way diff for drifting.....together with a hydraulic hand brake. Anyway, my F30 performs well on track with the quaife, but it is the street where it is most noticeable. One wheel over a slippery wet manhole cover? No issues, the other wheel continues to push you forward, without TC flickers.

As I say, both diff types would suit me, and probably you too. As quaife can be done for as little as £1250 to me, that is a grand cheaper than BMW's MP diff, so probably my route again on my m lite.

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Thanks for this, very useful. Interested in how the price comes out so low though, if I could get one for that I would order it tomorrow!

 

Personally I think both options are great upgrades.

On the warranty front, unless it's actually the diff itself that goes bang, it is almost impossible for any inspection to pick up the quaife internals. It's almost how quaife became so popular, apparently the quaife passed the rally car scrutineering in classes where LSD were prohibited. The test at the time was to rotate one wheel by hand, and in normal open diff operation, the other wheel would either stay still or rotate in the opposite direction. They then changed the test to jacking up one wheel and trying to drive. Most LSD will drag the other wheel round in the same direction. The quaife acted just like the open diff in these tests.

So if there was a gearbox or engine failure, unless the diff cover was opened, the quaife would be invisible. There is no reason to open the diff cover for a engine or gearbox failure. The diff needs to come out for this too.

Regarding costs, you are missing that you can also recover money back on a used quaife. BMW dealerships often sell off delivery mileage diffs when MP LSD are fitted. Cotswold sell them for as little as £100-150. By the time you sell your car, the scrapyards will be full of cheap diffs anyway. So although a spare diff is not part of the quaife deal, you can acquire one cheap enough to recover some cost.

I do laugh at the people that mention a quaife with the wheel in the air is as useless as an open diff. Well yes but how often do you want maximum traction whilst one rear wheel is flying through the air? And if you are lifting an inside rear wheel often enough to be causing an issue, I think you'd have a bigger chassis problem to solve than how the diff behaves.

Someone mentioned quaife not recommending their TB diff for tracks. Nonsense, I spoke to quaife at the autosport show a month ago. They work very well on track, but are not the best at drifting.....but then neither is the bmw lsd with 30% lock. You want a far more aggressive 2 way diff for drifting.....together with a hydraulic hand brake. Anyway, my F30 performs well on track with the quaife, but it is the street where it is most noticeable. One wheel over a slippery wet manhole cover? No issues, the other wheel continues to push you forward, without TC flickers.

As I say, both diff types would suit me, and probably you too. As quaife can be done for as little as £1250 to me, that is a grand cheaper than BMW's MP diff, so probably my route again on my m lite.

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I'm interested to see how the wavetrack one is in terms of lock, because as you say neither the quaife nor the bmw diff is ideal for drifting. I don't necessarily want to drift my M135i, I haven't bought it for that, but if I'm spending 1.5 to 2k I'd at least like the option... I'd be happy with a little low speed chatter for the benefits of a proper motorsport LSD.

Very informative post. NISFAN, good points made though.

Cheers!

 

Thanks for this, very useful. Interested in how the price comes out so low though, if I could get one for that I would order it tomorrow!

No probs!!!

Well I guess there are 3 elements that make up the price, so depends what you have been quoted.

The actual LSD internal, which replaces the bmw open diff internal, is less than a grand from Bird's.

You then have to machine off the crown wheel from the stock diff and bolt it onto the Quaife unit, that adds a second layer of cost. Birds offer an exchange housing, but it can be done for less. The actual machining instructions are pretty good and easy enough for a decent machine shop to follow.

Then finally it needs to be fitted to the car. Another cost.

I have a friendly machine shop, so that bit was done for £100. And I fitted it myself, so a lot cheaper than the BMW lsd.

 

I'm interested to see how the wavetrack one is in terms of lock, because as you say neither the quaife nor the bmw diff is ideal for drifting. I don't necessarily want to drift my M135i, I haven't bought it for that, but if I'm spending 1.5 to 2k I'd at least like the option... I'd be happy with a little low speed chatter for the benefits of a proper motorsport LSD.

Very informative post. NISFAN, good points made though.

Cheers!

Thumbs!!!

I've no experience of wavetrack, so can't comment. Sounds good in concept.

If you want a proper drift diff, you'll want something like an OS Giken 1.5 or 2 way diff. I personally wouldn't go that hardcore on a road car. As you say they tend to shudder and skip the tyres in tight turns. But can also catch you out, sharp down change in the wet and the rears can lock up and skid. Perfect for your Dorifto-Kingo, not so good on the shopping run in Basildon [emoji16]

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Looking at both options, both diffs will cost the same as i wont be fitting it myself, birds is around 2k and had a quote from cotswolds for £2020, if anyone had a gun to their head what would they pick?

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I thought birds exchanged for your oem diff, where as the m performance you keep it. Therefore the M performance works out cheaper.

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Lichfield imports for circa 1750

 

Manual 140/240 Quaife diff - anyone wanting to fit one of these?

Reason I ask is that I have a spare manual 3.08 ratio diff (bought it to fit it to my auto for close ratios, but apparently you get an error message).
I'm also having my 2,81 diff machined as per the Quaife conversion procedure. It might be possible to have the machining work done on the manual diff at the same time. Which gives a manual diff for £280 ready to accept the Quaife grenade (available from Bird's for £1000 ish with new seals and bolts. Total will cost around £1300 to anyone going this route. Anyone interested.

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Bump

Is there any TC issues with the Quafie? Or does the TC work as normal in sport/sport+?