Aisin is part-owned by Toyota so I wonder if that influenced BMW's choice given their co-operation on the Z4/Supra. I guess gear changes can be manipulated by software to create a different feel if needed.

 

Yes I have experience of the box, as I recently drove a Volvo V60 with one fitted. Certainly it does the cruising bit very well and suited the Volvos laid back character. I would say that up to 7/10ths you would not notice any difference to the ZF box.
However, for those like me that want a touch more 'edge' to your drive, you can specify the 'Polestar' pack from the factory. This is a remap for the engine, throttle and gearbox. IMO this takes it another step closer to the ZF (so we're now at 8/10ths). And this is what I ordered for my V60.
Note though, if you're expecting the Aisin to be as sharp as the ZF when you're 'hooning', you may be disappointed. No problem for me in a Volvo estate, but may be a problem for the future M135i drivers.

 

One of the video youtube mainstream reviewers not wannabes said the box wasnt as good in this car.....have to say watching the m140i pulling away from this new model on the car wow vid was a bit of a negative showstopper to say the least really offputting and as a 330d owner I was up for having a good look.

 

One of the video youtube mainstream reviewers not wannabes said the box wasnt as good in this car.....have to say watching the m140i pulling away from this new model on the car wow vid was a bit of a negative showstopper to say the least really offputting and as a 330d owner I was up for having a good look.

You've highlighted what I said above. If you want very quick responses, you won't beat the ZF.

 

I must admit to thinking that the ZF8 is better than the DSG in Golf R, but I wonder whether the Aisin box is going to keep up in those stakes.

I've driven both DSG and ZF8. The ZF8 is the superior box - but not by a huge margin. It also has the advantage of being able to drop from say 6th or 7th right down to 2nd in one jump. This is something the DSG box can't do.

I have no experience of the Aisin unit. I suspect it's cheap(er) and designed to mate up with transverse engines.

 

I must admit to thinking that the ZF8 is better than the DSG in Golf R, but I wonder whether the Aisin box is going to keep up in those stakes.

I've driven both DSG and ZF8. The ZF8 is the superior box - but not by a huge margin. It also has the advantage of being able to drop from say 6th or 7th right down to 2nd in one jump. This is something the DSG box can't do.

I have no experience of the Aisin unit. I suspect it's cheap(er) and designed to mate up with transverse engines.

No idea on the comparative costs, but you're absolutely right on the transverse engine. The new M135i box is used in Volvo's, Vauxhall's and many US only cars to name a few

 

The aisin has been used in the Mini for a while which makes sense as the new 1 is a mini with a different badge, BMW have quietly introduced a dct box in the petrol X1 last year, may be a future box for a faster car?

 

ZF do a 9 speed transverse auto that's fitted to a number of cars both FWD and AWD.

Can't say why BMW chose Aisin, could be cost or packaging issues? ZF may not be capable of meeting the required volume? Maybe BMW don't want to put all their eggs into a ZF basket? Maybe they didn't want a 9 speed in their entry level model...

 

The current 1er only has to be good enough for a broad market that almost entirely doesn't give a **** about anything now except the badge and 'jewel like' interiors.

Why would BMW spend money and make the car cost more, when they can get away with something cheaper and less good?

 

The current 1er only has to be good enough for a broad market that almost entirely doesn't give a sh*t about anything now except the badge and 'jewel like' interiors.

Why would BMW spend money and make the car cost more, when they can get away with something cheaper and less good?

Good question to ask on a forum where most of the hot discussion is about money factors, percent down, dealer contribution, discounts, monthlies, balloon payments and "can I mod my car on finance"!

Also you did sort of answer your second statement with the first... : )

 

I had an X2 M35i for a few days and was going to right a short review/comparison as it has the same engine, gearbox and AWD system (with a few tweaks) as the new M135i, but it would appear 99% of the members on here have written off the new 1 series so I won't bother. I will however summarise my thoughts on the gearbox.

In Comfort Mode and just pootling about, the changes were just as smooth as the ZF, no noticeable difference. In Sport Mode it felt marginally slower than the ZF, unless you were using full throttle kickdown, then the changes nearer the rev limit seemed overly exaggerated/aggressive.

There was a noticeable delay in kickdown in comfort, which would explain the Carwow video where they did the rolling test. Also I found pulling away at roundabouts in Comfort was awful. Not sure if this was specifically the gearbox or the fact it's a smaller engine with a bigger turbo (maybe both), but it was very laggy/hesitant. However in sport the issue went away.

Is it as good as the ZF? No, but it's not bad. Just forget comfort and drive everywhere in Sport.

 

To be fair, it's a completely different car with fwd, and rwd when needed (like the haldex fwd vag stuff)

Transverse engine.

Higher boost, less capacity.

It'll be so different in important ways for an enthusiast 140i owner, I don't think the gearbox will be the deciding factor any way.

 

Had an aisin box in my mini cooper, it was okay but not as smooth as the zf, also didn't seem to creep like an auto normally does

 

There was a noticeable delay in kickdown in comfort, which would explain the Carwow video where they did the rolling test. Also I found pulling away at roundabouts in Comfort was awful. Not sure if this was specifically the gearbox or the fact it's a smaller engine with a bigger turbo (maybe both), but it was very laggy/hesitant. However in sport the issue went away.

I'm with you, and think people sometimes read too much into it.

That sluggishness could be as much software as it is the actual gearbox. My 5 series (ZF8 box) can be borderline scary pulling out onto a roundabout or fast road in comfort. The 'same' gearbox in the M135i feels totally different, because it's tuned to feel different.

 

There was a noticeable delay in kickdown in comfort, which would explain the Carwow video where they did the rolling test. Also I found pulling away at roundabouts in Comfort was awful. Not sure if this was specifically the gearbox or the fact it's a smaller engine with a bigger turbo (maybe both), but it was very laggy/hesitant. However in sport the issue went away.

I'm with you, and think people sometimes read too much into it.

That sluggishness could be as much software as it is the actual gearbox. My 5 series (ZF8 box) can be borderline scary pulling out onto a roundabout or fast road in comfort. The 'same' gearbox in the M135i feels totally different, because it's tuned to feel different.

Engine does play a role in how smooth a gearbox feels. Because the B58 has plenty of torque the ZF8 feels seemless and I can enter fast junctions in COMFORT without anxiety.

In a 20d, the ZF8 is less smooth because of the spikey torque delivery from almost nothing to a whole 400Nm at 1,750rpm. Furthermore there isn't even any point in shifting manually in a 20d so you don't get to experience the full spectrum of the gearbox's abilities.

 

Interesting read between ZF and AISIN..

If im honest i understand why BMW went for AISIN, the ZF9 does have odd shift patterns.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2...utcars.com/2014/02/zfs-9-speed-9hp-transmission-puts-dog-clutches-on-the-leash/

 

Interesting read between ZF and AISIN..

If im honest i understand why BMW went for AISIN, the ZF9 does have odd shift patterns.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2...utcars.com/2014/02/zfs-9-speed-9hp-transmission-puts-dog-clutches-on-the-leash/

The article was published in 2014. The ZF8 has been updated since. BMW choosing Aisin for the M135i is likely because of cost and compact packaging.

 

Interesting read between ZF and AISIN..

If im honest i understand why BMW went for AISIN, the ZF9 does have odd shift patterns.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2...utcars.com/2014/02/zfs-9-speed-9hp-transmission-puts-dog-clutches-on-the-leash/

The article was published in 2014. The ZF8 has been updated since. BMW choosing Aisin for the M135i is likely because of cost and compact packaging.

Plus the new 1 series uses a MINI chassis which the Aisin box fits, because it's been in the auto MINI's.

 

Interesting read between ZF and AISIN..

If im honest i understand why BMW went for AISIN, the ZF9 does have odd shift patterns.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2...utcars.com/2014/02/zfs-9-speed-9hp-transmission-puts-dog-clutches-on-the-leash/

The article was published in 2014. The ZF8 has been updated since. BMW choosing Aisin for the M135i is likely because of cost and compact packaging.

It's more engaged with the ZF9. The characteristics of the ZF9 vs the Aisin 8 are huge and reading that article about the mechanics of the box and the characteristics

 

Interesting read between ZF and AISIN..

If im honest i understand why BMW went for AISIN, the ZF9 does have odd shift patterns.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2...utcars.com/2014/02/zfs-9-speed-9hp-transmission-puts-dog-clutches-on-the-leash/

The article was published in 2014. The ZF8 has been updated since. BMW choosing Aisin for the M135i is likely because of cost and compact packaging.

Plus the new 1 series uses a MINI chassis which the Aisin box fits, because it's been in the auto MINI's.

Indeed. People forget that we've moved from longitudinal engine mounting to transverse. The Aisin is therefore the obvious choice.

 

Saving costs is the main contributing factor in decision making here...

Its cheaper to build a FWD car on a platform used in other models (2 series, mini etc) than to design a car purely for a 6-cyl RWD platform that consists on a very low overall volume - i.e the bulk of 1-series sales is NOT the M135/140, so the idea to maximise your returns on the highest selling models makes commercial sense

 

Saving costs is the main contributing factor in decision making here...

Its cheaper to build a FWD car on a platform used in other models (2 series, mini etc) than to design a car purely for a 6-cyl RWD platform that consists on a very low overall volume - i.e the bulk of 1-series sales is NOT the M135/140, so the idea to maximise your returns on the highest selling models makes commercial sense

Indeed. Platform sharing and commonality of components are essential these days. The best example of accountant built cars is surely the VAG MBQ platform.

 

Saving costs is the main contributing factor in decision making here...

Its cheaper to build a FWD car on a platform used in other models (2 series, mini etc) than to design a car purely for a 6-cyl RWD platform that consists on a very low overall volume - i.e the bulk of 1-series sales is NOT the M135/140, so the idea to maximise your returns on the highest selling models makes commercial sense

Indeed. Platform sharing and commonality of components are essential these days. The best example of accountant built cars is surely the VAG MBQ platform.

MQB, not MBQ.

 

Saving costs is the main contributing factor in decision making here...

Its cheaper to build a FWD car on a platform used in other models (2 series, mini etc) than to design a car purely for a 6-cyl RWD platform that consists on a very low overall volume - i.e the bulk of 1-series sales is NOT the M135/140, so the idea to maximise your returns on the highest selling models makes commercial sense

Indeed. Platform sharing and commonality of components are essential these days. The best example of accountant built cars is surely the VAG MBQ platform.

MQB, not MBQ.

I'm dyslexic so I saw MBQ as MQB. Sorry.

 

Hello, new to this forum, good reading, also would like to add that the newest mini's are using a 7 speed DCT box from GETRAG, not AISIN any more.