I'll be buying my car soon and I think this is a good question. As I plan on b12 and other mods straight away.

However I can't see it making a lot of difference as most people only report around 7mm drop from standard. Open to being corrected though. And not sure on b14 kits drop.

My ideal setup would be the b12 kit with M3 LCA and then M3 TS to bring the wheel back to centre.

Don't know how much camber plates cost but if it were me ide rather spend the money on the M3 parts and get new updated bushes as well.

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Thanks, I thought about M4 control and tension arms but from my calcs seems more expensive and more of a faff. Especially as the tower struts will come out to fit the new suspension anyway.

The millway camber plates are £400 plus fitting

 

I'm sure I saw M4 LCA were around 75 quid each. If you buy the equivalent brand (I think it's Lemforder)

Assuming the TS are around the same.

Your right though it is less of a faff. Although it's in bits anyway and the improvement in steering feel could be better due to the M4 parts.

My possibly stupid thought process is. If cornering hard, the soft bush could flex more and the camber plates can't do anything about that.

Don't forget the M4 LCA widens the front track around 12mm which I don't think the camber plates will at all. So this also improves feel and looks too.

I know the M4 LCA lower the car a bit more. Due to it being longer. I'm waiting on confirmation that the M4 TS brings it back up a bit.

Maybe I shouldn't have posted my questions in the aftermarket bit 3 days ago as had no reply's yet.

Sorry I do tend to ramble but hopefully it helps

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Thanks, I thought about M4 control and tension arms but from my calcs seems more expensive and more of a faff. Especially as the tower struts will come out to fit the new suspension anyway.

The millway camber plates are £400 plus fitting

No you don't get an appreciable difference in camber by lowering alone.

Lemforder LCA+TS are a cheaper but still OEM quality set.

Camber plates are rarely 'quiet' so beware.

B16 for the win [emoji16]

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Upper Control Arm/TS brings up the front only a smidget, but hardly anything really.

Camber plates are not ideal. You will almost always get some sort of knocking. As Trojan mentioned, it only pulls in the top of the strut, it doesn't push out the bottom like the LCA/UCA does (increasing track width).

With my front axle setup:
- Eibach pro
- M3 LCA and UCA/TS
- 8.0 ET40 wheels

My front stock 225 tyres sometimes rub. You don't want to go any more aggressive unless you also add in camber plates to bring front top in.

 

M3 LCA and UCA also consists of ball joints vs rubber joints (LCA)

And harder rubber bushes vs hydraulic rubber (UCA).

So it's not just about increasing negative camber or track width. It's also equally about getting less compromising bushes to get better road feel.

 

That's all brilliant confirmations. The ops got some decision making to do. So with the b12 kit I'm assuming the front is going to look lower than the back with the LCA and UCA as well.

Not sure if this is called the raked look or if it's other way round lol.

Not a problem with sock wheels I presume?

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That's all brilliant confirmations. The ops got some decision making to do. So with the b12 kit I'm assuming the front is going to look lower than the back with the LCA and UCA as well.

Not sure if this is called the raked look or if it's other way round lol.

Not a problem with sock wheels I presume?

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Cheers, That makes sense that the LCA will increase front track, I hadn't considered that side of things. Yes I think it will give it a bit of rake but I do quite like that, it means I could go for a massive Redbull style diffuser in future

I'll definitely be looking at pricing up the LCA's and TS with the lemforder parts using the FAQ section for part numbers.

 

This is why the forums good. You think something, ask, then do the right thing lol

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That's all brilliant confirmations. The ops got some decision making to do. So with the b12 kit I'm assuming the front is going to look lower than the back with the LCA and UCA as well.

Not sure if this is called the raked look or if it's other way round lol.

Not a problem with sock wheels I presume?

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My front end didn't drop when I fitted M4 LCA+TS, so no you won't get a raked look if you fit those.

Some members only fitted LCA and they reported lower ride height. I can't see it made more than a few mm difference if it did. My trigonometry says that on a triangle with a hypotenuse length of probably 1 metre, changing the adjacent by 20mm is not going to shorten the opposite by much at all.
Perhaps moving the wheel forward increases front wheel axle weight enough to compress it more? Probably more plausible.

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That's all brilliant confirmations. The ops got some decision making to do. So with the b12 kit I'm assuming the front is going to look lower than the back with the LCA and UCA as well.

Not sure if this is called the raked look or if it's other way round lol.

Not a problem with sock wheels I presume?

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My front end didn't drop when I fitted M4 LCA+TS, so no you won't get a raked look if you fit those.

Some members only fitted LCA and they reported lower ride height. I can't see it made more than a few mm difference if it did. My trigonometry says that on a triangle with a hypotenuse length of probably 1 metre, changing the adjacent by 20mm is not going to shorten the opposite by much at all.
Perhaps moving the wheel forward increases front wheel axle weight enough to compress it more? Probably more plausible.

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That's valuable information thanks. Any report in the steering feel and overall impression of the M4 parts. I.e are they worth it?

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That's valuable information thanks. Any report in the steering feel and overall impression of the M4 parts. I.e are they worth it?

To be honest, I didn't get the wow that has been reported by others. Felt pretty normal. But on track the car tracks very nicely under braking, before the car was skittish as anything. I suspect the wheels splay outwards on the stock squidgy bushes something awful. M4 has much stiffer bushings.

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That's valuable information thanks. Any report in the steering feel and overall impression of the M4 parts. I.e are they worth it?

To be honest, I didn't get the wow that has been reported by others. Felt pretty normal. But on track the car tracks very nicely under braking, before the car was skittish as anything. I suspect the wheels splay outwards on the stock squidgy bushes something awful. M4 has much stiffer bushings.

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Thanks for being honest. Think I'm still going to do it. As well as b12. Should make for a decent setup and I won't even be tracking car. Just want it to be a nice road car

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M3 LCA and UCA also consists of ball joints vs rubber joints (LCA)

And harder rubber bushes vs hydraulic rubber (UCA).

Jah - did you upgrade yr F8x LCA bushes to monoball type before installing ?

I only ask as std F8x LCA/UCA both come with solid rubber bushes as standard.

BP

 

That's valuable information thanks. Any report in the steering feel and overall impression of the M4 parts. I.e are they worth it?

To be honest, I didn't get the wow that has been reported by others. Felt pretty normal. But on track the car tracks very nicely under braking, before the car was skittish as anything. I suspect the wheels splay outwards on the stock squidgy bushes something awful. M4 has much stiffer bushings.

Thanks for being honest. Think I'm still going to do it. As well as b12. Should make for a decent setup and I won't even be tracking car. Just want it to be a nice road car

Trojan,

As an earlier adopter of initially F8x LCA only then later the F8x TS - I think the effect on my cars was more marked than say Nisfan's M240i. His 2d coupe being newer and better resolved starting point than my 5dr hatchback.

Nisfan comment about braking stability on track is spot on. This was one of my main reasons for my adding the F8x TS. Between fitting F8x LCA and prior to fitting F8x TS, I installed BMW MPBBK [370/345 slotted/dimple discs and large calipers upfront]. With better braking, the cause and effect Nisfan describes above was exaggerated. Once I had F8x LCA and TS, the solid rubber bushes kept the geo more constant hence greater stability/confidence under braking.

B12 + F8x LCA/TS will give you a v nice road car IMHO !

BP

 

Jah - did you upgrade yr F8x LCA bushes to monoball type before installing ?

I only ask as std F8x LCA/UCA both come with solid rubber bushes as standard.

I was under the impression that this part of the LCA was a monoball joint...

If it's just a harder rubber part, then my mistake!

 

Jah - did you upgrade yr F8x LCA bushes to monoball type before installing ?

I only ask as std F8x LCA/UCA both come with solid rubber bushes as standard.

I was under the impression that this part of the LCA was a monoball joint...

If it's just a harder rubber part, then my mistake!

It is a monoball [emoji106]

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Jah - did you upgrade yr F8x LCA bushes to monoball type before installing ?

I only ask as std F8x LCA/UCA both come with solid rubber bushes as standard.

I was under the impression that this part of the LCA was a monoball joint...

If it's just a harder rubber part, then my mistake!

Sorry to burst anyone's bubble but F8x is definitely solid rubber as per m4 LCA (right) in the photo below

 

Jah - did you upgrade yr F8x LCA bushes to monoball type before installing ?

I only ask as std F8x LCA/UCA both come with solid rubber bushes as standard.

I was under the impression that this part of the LCA was a monoball joint...

If it's just a harder rubber part, then my mistake!

Sorry to burst anyone's bubble but F8x is definitely solid rubber as per m4 LCA (right) in the photo below

Rubber boot over pillowball BP, 100%

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I had thought the F80 joint looked a bit small for rubber. But I honestly wouldn't know any better.

Left is stock with PU bush. Right is F80 arm (Lemforder).

 

Around 0:50 this guy explains the difference.

https://youtu.be/zaEcGa2lAMY

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Around 0:50 this guy explains the difference.

👍

 

I was under the impression that this part of the LCA was a monoball joint...

If it's just a harder rubber part, then my mistake!

Sorry to burst anyone's bubble but F8x is definitely solid rubber as per m4 LCA (right) in the photo below

Rubber boot over pillowball BP, 100%

Props to N'fan and Jah 👍

Every day is a school day and I stand corrected

BP

 

Every day is a school day

I also learned today

 

That's valuable information thanks. Any report in the steering feel and overall impression of the M4 parts. I.e are they worth it?

To be honest, I didn't get the wow that has been reported by others. Felt pretty normal. But on track the car tracks very nicely under braking, before the car was skittish as anything. I suspect the wheels splay outwards on the stock squidgy bushes something awful. M4 has much stiffer bushings.

Id personally echo these exact words with having the "wow" factor that was mentioned by others. Yes it's improved over the stock steering. When I first added them i felt the car was too twitchy with them. Now ive driven the car a 1000 miles or so with them they are great as ive got used to them. Definitely a worthwhile mod if you can get the arms for £250/300. I purchased mine through AUTODOC and ordered the genuine lemforder arms.

After adding just the arms i got an extra -1 degree of camber and +1.2 of caster on my f22. Thats both the LCA and TS.

Personally from adding the arms my car dropped 5/6mm extra. Its by no means any issue with driving anywhere. To centre of the cap to arch its 340mm. Their wasnt any visual difference between adding the TS after the LCAs however I didn't drive it. I just lowered the car to measure it.

Im running the birds b2 setup. (Birds eibachs and b6 dampers). Stock 463ms 225/40/18 fronts with a 5mm spacer (7.5j et 40) absolutely zero issues.

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