[Jk911]

Just seen this and although I'm really not a fan of fords as I find the interiors just horrible , you've got to be impressed with what they say about the drive.

Would like to see mr Harris get his hands on one!

http://youtu.be/oF4ml18x_XU

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[Kerr]

It appears the Focus is nowhere near as fast as it should be. The last one also fell way short of the claimed figures. 163mph was really 145mph and my old similarly powered 335i had no issues pulling away from one.

Looks like the MK3 has the same issues.

https://youtu.be/2aAkkAfIyA4

On a drag race the start is vital and the Focus makes the best start. Then the A45 goes passed with a huge speed margin, then the Golf R catches up and overtakes too. To turn a deficit around into a victory usually needs a good power advantage in a short drag race.

Yes the DCT boxes do help with acceleration, especially low down with multiple quick changes needed, but even when in gear and pulling, the Focus was never even holding the Golf even after getting the best start.

Cars that offer both DCT and manual see about 0.2sec between 0-60mph. The Focus RS is supposed to be faster than the Golf R to 60mph, then you'd expect the extra power to help the Focus pull away.

Test drivers actually said the car didn't feel as fast as the 300bhp Civic Type R. Now we see it isn't as fast as a 300bhp Golf.

After all the Focus owners claiming this was going to be a performance car with outrageous figures that would blow away all the competition and frighten the life out of the A45 and RS3, it's really upset a lot of people.

No longer are 0-60mph times or drag races the measure of a performance car.

Sounds like the Focus is as heavy as people suggest or the transmission is very power sapping.

Either way losing to a <300bhp Golf that's now much older technology is quite embarrassing.

 

[Shins]

To be fair, it should be stick v stick. On our 30-130mph days, a DSG variant was 2sec quicker over this distance.

Now let's put those 3 cars on a track and time them!
End of the day, hats off to all these guys for making US great hot hatches!

 

[Kerr]

To be fair, it should be stick v stick. On our 30-130mph days, a DSG variant was 2sec quicker over this distance.

Now let's put those 3 cars on a track and time them!
End of the day, hats off to all these guys for making US great hot hatches!

In gear there's nothing between DSG and manual. Having seen quite a few races between cars, I've never seen much difference other than when someone can't change the gears. I'm sure there will be loads of head to heads on YouTube. Any advantage will be the start and first one or two changes, but if you make a great start, you've overcome the launch controlled start. The Focus also has launch control.

There is no way that DSG makes a car with 50bhp less faster. 50bhp is like a remap to many cars where a huge leap in performance in noticeable.

That video above shows even in gear the Focus is slower than the Golf. It wasn't as if the Focus was pulling away until the gear shift and then the Golf caught up, the Golf was always catching and moving ahead once it negated the better start of the Focus.

The Golf R is timed at over 12 seconds for 0-100mph. The old N54 powered 335i/135i does the same with just RWD and a manual box. The Focus RS has 4wd and an extra 50bhp, so to be slower than a Golf R and 335i/135i is very disappointing.

The Civic Type R is manual and a number of the journalists said the Focus was noticeably slower. A 300bhp car shouldn't feel faster than a similar 350bhp car.

I read the Focus RS forum and they are devastated by this. The thread ended up getting locked as they got so upset over it.

It'll be interesting to see how it fairs on track, but most will never see the track, so it doesn't really matter for most.

As that video says hot hatches are all about bragging rights. Owners are obsessed with facts and figures. Fastest 0-60mph and drag times do matter so much to do many. After the 0-60mph time of the Focus was faster than the Golf and the 50bhp advantage, there was a lot of posts about how the Focus would blow it away. Clearly it doesn't at all.

The straight line performance of the Focus does appear to be very disappointing and that does matter a lot.

 

[mikeyscott]

Why do people get so upset if a civic tyre R beats it or a VW, skoda or whatever.

Life is too short.

Focus RS MK2 & 3 will prob monster my 135i and I don't care.

 

[Gazwal86]

How will a Focus RS shape up against out the M135i though?, standard vs standard, looking at the video above the 1er should be quicker no?

 

[Kerr]

Why do people get so upset if a civic tyre R beats it or a VW, skoda or whatever.

Life is too short.

Focus RS MK2 & 3 will prob monster my 135i and I don't care.

My old 335i comfortably beats the MK2. It's 0-100mph time was 14.2secs and topped out at 145mph rather than the claimed 163mph. The 335i was almost 2 seconds faster to 100mph.

People are obsessed with figures. That's why even on here we've got loads of manual v auto disagreements, VBOX figures and drag times.

Performance does matter a lot when you are buying a performance car.

 

[Kerr]

How will a Focus RS shape up against out the M135i though?, standard vs standard, looking at the video above the 1er should be quicker no?

Comfortably. The M135i is quicker than the R on the move.

 

[mikeyscott]

Why do people get so upset if a civic tyre R beats it or a VW, skoda or whatever.

Life is too short.

Focus RS MK2 & 3 will prob monster my 135i and I don't care.

My old 335i comfortably beats the MK2. It's 0-60mph time was 14.2secs and topped out at 145mph rather than the claimed 163mph. The 335i was almost 2 seconds faster to 100mph.

People are obsessed with figures. That's why even on here we've got loads of manual v auto disagreements, VBOX figures and drag times.

Performance does matter a lot when you are buying a performance car.

Performance matters if it meets your needs. If it's outgunned oh well is my view.

 

[Shins]

We'll agree to disagree, I know for a FACT that DSG over manual, over a 30-130mph period, is literally 2 secs faster as proven on the Vbox graphs.

You could argue with RS''s start, what that would be like if it had a slush box???

You could also argue that if the RS does stonking lap times, will everyone else be moaning about torque vectoring etc etc We could go on and on!!!

Pay your money, take your car and enjoy!

 

[mikeyscott]

We'll agree to disagree..

Pay your money, take your car and enjoy!

Totally agree

 

[19376]

How will a Focus RS shape up against out the M135i though?, standard vs standard, looking at the video above the 1er should be quicker no?

Comfortably. The M135i is quicker than the R on the move.

never had any issues in mine against a couple, twas mountune mind but still technically standard lol

 

[rabbos]

To be fair, it should be stick v stick. On our 30-130mph days, a DSG variant was 2sec quicker over this distance.

Now let's put those 3 cars on a track and time them!
End of the day, hats off to all these guys for making US great hot hatches!

Every time that guy changes gear he falls back a car length, and even then they end up very close together, despite the extra lard of the focus.

 

[Kerr]

We'll agree to disagree, I know for a FACT that DSG over manual, over a 30-130mph period, is literally 2 secs faster as proven on the Vbox graphs.

You could argue with RS''s start, what that would be like if it had a slush box???

You could also argue that if the RS does stonking lap times, will everyone else be moaning about torque vectoring etc etc We could go on and on!!!

Pay your money, take your car and enjoy!

What kind of power of car are we talking, 300-350bhp or a lot more?

Look at the times that people are doing down the quarter mile strip and a well driven manual is tenths off a DCT unless they balls up the start.

It you give big revs and side step the clutch most 4wd cars give amazing 0-60mph figures. EVOs will do very low 4s with a manual box and similar power. You've got one gear change before 60mph, so it's hard to go too far wrong.

I've not seen any laps times yet. The reviews did say the Civic felt faster on the track, so that might still be true.

 

[Kerr]

On saying that 2 seconds between 30-130mph could be just a few tenths down a drag strip.

Such is the acceleration curve of 300-350bhp cars, when the first car hits 130mph, the other car will only be a few miles per hour slower. It's not as if one will hit 130mph and the other will be doing 120mph.

 

[Shins]

Yeah, around 340-350bhp.

It is a fair old drag and 3 gear changes.
Mine was the Focus RS MK1 manual and my mate in his ED30 DSG.

 

[Kerr]

Yeah, around 340-350bhp.

It is a fair old drag and 3 gear changes.
Mine was the Focus RS MK1 manual and my mate in his ED30 DSG.

That's not a measurement of the gearbox performance though.

To compare gearbox advantage you are going to need to have two cars that are exact same with the exception of the box.

You are comparing two completely different cars with many different factors that can contribute to a difference in performance.

You can't race a two 350bhp cars and conclude all of the performance difference is down to the gearbox.

Both cars are obviously modified to even get to those figures so it adds so many more variables into the already clouded situation.

I used the 335i v MK2 RS example earlier. Both manual, both around 300bhp. The Focus does 0-60mph in 5.9 secs the BMW 5.4sec. Yes RWD will help the start, but the Focus takes 14.2 sec for 100mph, but the BMW is 12.4sec. The performance gap gets greater the faster it goes.

Power is only part of the story, but a similar type car with an extra 50bhp I'd expect to win comfortably regardless of the gearbox. Often engine displacement helps too with a wider power/torque spread, but the Focus has an extra 300cc too. It doesn't seem logical given its advantage on paper how the Golf still sailed by.

A lot of the VAG cars have responded really well to remaps. Some of them tend to produce really good performance figures for the real power, not just DSG cars.

 

[Shins]

I had the evidence shown to me on the vbox graph, he was able to show me the loss in gear changes.

As I have said before, my friend has an RS ordered and as soon as it arrives and run in, I will be on my way down to try out the M135i on it myself, manual V manual, standard V standard and JB4 V standard RS.

I'm sure it won't take the Ford enthusiasts to start modifying (he is in the business and will be one of the first to do so) so a modified V modified won't be far off either!

In fact, just heard word that Mountune have had one since November!!!!

 

[RearDriver23]

Why do people get so upset if a civic tyre R beats it or a VW, skoda or whatever.

Life is too short.

Focus RS MK2 & 3 will prob monster my 135i and I don't care.

My old 335i comfortably beats the MK2. It's 0-60mph time was 14.2secs and topped out at 145mph rather than the claimed 163mph. The 335i was almost 2 seconds faster to 100mph.

People are obsessed with figures. That's why even on here we've got loads of manual v auto disagreements, VBOX figures and drag times.

Performance does matter a lot when you are buying a performance car.

My old vw polo 1.2 wasn't far off that......

 

[Kerr]

Why do people get so upset if a civic tyre R beats it or a VW, skoda or whatever.

Life is too short.

Focus RS MK2 & 3 will prob monster my 135i and I don't care.

My old 335i comfortably beats the MK2. It's 0-60mph time was 14.2secs and topped out at 145mph rather than the claimed 163mph. The 335i was almost 2 seconds faster to 100mph.

People are obsessed with figures. That's why even on here we've got loads of manual v auto disagreements, VBOX figures and drag times.

Performance does matter a lot when you are buying a performance car.

My old vw polo 1.2 wasn't far off that......

Edited that. Should have been 100mph.

It just appears that fast Ford Focus don't manage the perfomance that they supposed to.

The last one was 0-100mph in 14.2sec which is identical to that of the Mazda 3 MPS which is 45bhp down.