[NISFAN]

Obviously never driven an M2 Comp then! funniest thing ive hear anyone say,.

Obviously never properly modified a car then, an 240 with a map would be faster in a straight line than an M2 before you get onto brakes, suspension, tyres etc, even though it says "Competiton" on the boot the M2 is a compromise between economy, comfort, practicality and performance, you only need one of those in your own modified car.
Explain to me how "fitting race spec suspension" would be any different on a 240 than an M2? How is tuning an S55 ever going to be better than a B58? They weigh about the same and have the wheels, engine and gearbox in the same place, they really arent that different.

You might also want to check the spec of NISFANs 240 and what he did with before you start making claims about your road car

Agreed, they are both made from the same blank chassis canvas. The M parts are different, but that doesn't equal best.

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[OneTwenty]

Don't underestimate an m lite. My modified 240i would kick my M2 competition's ass.

Obviously never driven an M2 Comp then! funniest thing ive hear anyone say,.

I'm just double checking, you did see the "MY" in that sentence from Nisfan didn't you? I've Bolded it if not.

Nisfan OWNS an M2 Comp now IIRC, and he had a modded 240 so I'd take his word on that over people that haven't owned both.

As I've said on here before, the M Division don't sprinkle magic dust into the cars they produce, they just beef up a few choice components, any car can be made to whatever you want it to be if you spend enough.

You're also slightly deluded if you really believe this magical "M Division" is some mythical department, with super engineers whose only job is to produce the best performing BMW models possible after spending millions of Euros on R&D.

It may once have been like that, but it's all about marketing and profit these days. They know M cars sell well, and that people buying them also don't mind spending more on running costs and M tax. I doubt an M2 is vastly superior in so many ways to a 240 or even a std 2 series apart from a few tweaks here and there and a wider track.

As docwra points out the "Competition" in the name is nothing to do with actual racing/competition, it's just a pretentious way of selling more cars!!

 

[Surrey M140i]

I've noticed that everyone on this forum is very dogmatic(those unsure, look it up!) You guys only believe the guy that you know best, or the opinion that fits yours! The 135 rear spring myth for an example. I've got sets and sets of springs, dampers and suspension parts in the garage and ive messed with and done the math on but yet nearly everyone says that the rear 135 spring is the way to go, but cant back it up.

Dan, I do understand and get a lot of what you say, but I don't understand why you think that the M135i or 400lb (ish) spring is wrong.

Until the rules changed in Germany about car being able to do 124mph with 5 people and fully loaded came into play, the M135 had 400lb springs and most people were happy. H&R, Eibach, Birds etc all agreed and they made springs all around 400lbs. And if like me, you didn't want to lower the car but wanted a more comfortable ride the M135i rear spring swap was a great way to improve the cars ride. Add B8 dampers and ride & handling are both improved.

Yes, if you want a track focused or a more HOT hatch Civic Type R ride then M135i springs is not correct. But if you want comfort & ride quality it absolutely is the way forward.

 

[Shins]

Ahhh, glad to see Dan the dick is back, telling everyone how it should be!

 

[duke 2]

I've noticed that everyone on this forum is very dogmatic(those unsure, look it up!) You guys only believe the guy that you know best, or the opinion that fits yours! The 135 rear spring myth for an example. I've got sets and sets of springs, dampers and suspension parts in the garage and ive messed with and done the math on but yet nearly everyone says that the rear 135 spring is the way to go, but cant back it up.

Dan, I do understand and get a lot of what you say, but I don't understand why you think that the M135i or 400lb (ish) spring is wrong.

Until the rules changed in Germany about car being able to do 124mph with 5 people and fully loaded came into play, the M135 had 400lb springs and most people were happy. H&R, Eibach, Birds etc all agreed and they made springs all around 400lbs. And if like me, you didn't want to lower the car but wanted a more comfortable ride the M135i rear spring swap was a great way to improve the cars ride. Add B8 dampers and ride & handling are both improved.

Yes, if you want a track focused or a more HOT hatch Civic Type R ride then M135i springs is not correct. But if you want comfort & ride quality it absolutely is the way forward.

Do you have any more info on the German fully loaded/124mph thing? Would be interested to see what that is and what it's aiming at?

Would at least give some justification for the mental standard M140 spring rate!

 

[Chapscrap]

Yep, he's back. I wondered how long it would be before rear springs were mentioned🙄

 

[Surrey M140i]

From the Birds website

The problem is that, in Germany, new cars have to be able to do 124mph, five-up and with a fully loaded boot, normally on smooth roads. Consequently, modern cars are desperately over-damped most of the time, when they only have one or two occupants. And they are certainly not optimised for the UK's broken, bumpy road network.

https://www.birdsauto.com/product-information/b1-sport-suspension-kit-bmw-f20-m135i

 

[duke 2]

From the Birds website

The problem is that, in Germany, new cars have to be able to do 124mph, five-up and with a fully loaded boot, normally on smooth roads. Consequently, modern cars are desperately over-damped most of the time, when they only have one or two occupants. And they are certainly not optimised for the UK's broken, bumpy road network.

https://www.birdsauto.com/product-information/b1-sport-suspension-kit-bmw-f20-m135i

Ah I always thought Birds were just referring to one of the design considerations for a typical fast German car - tooling along an Autobahn at 200kph with all the family onboard, rather than an actual law or piece or legislation.

 

[Surrey M140i]

From the Birds website

The problem is that, in Germany, new cars have to be able to do 124mph, five-up and with a fully loaded boot, normally on smooth roads. Consequently, modern cars are desperately over-damped most of the time, when they only have one or two occupants. And they are certainly not optimised for the UK's broken, bumpy road network.

https://www.birdsauto.com/product-information/b1-sport-suspension-kit-bmw-f20-m135i

Ah I always thought Birds were just referring to one of the design considerations for a typical fast German car - tooling along an Autobahn at 200kph with all the family onboard, rather than an actual law or piece or legislation.

I don't know about that, but it does make sense. Either way the general consensus here is that BMW messed up when they uprated the rear springs on the M140i

 

[docwra]

Dan, I do understand and get a lot of what you say, but I don't understand why you think that the M135i or 400lb (ish) spring is wrong.

No offence but for once youve actually got people with real life experience of using all sorts of diffs, 240 vs M2s and building racecars having an illuminating conversation here, if you want a one on one about M135i rear spring rates could I suggest FB messenger?

Particularly interesting that the 240 (and 235 before it) were what was made into racecars and not the M2, not surprised that the M stuff gets binned off for proper spec gear when you go racing though. Anyone know a 240 race team to ask them?

 

[Surrey M140i]

Dan, I do understand and get a lot of what you say, but I don't understand why you think that the M135i or 400lb (ish) spring is wrong.

No offence but for once youve actually got people with real life experience of using all sorts of diffs, 240 vs M2s and building racecars having an illuminating conversation here, if you want a one on one about M135i rear spring rates could I suggest FB messenger?

Particularly interesting that the 240 (and 235 before it) were what was made into racecars and not the M2, not surprised that the M stuff gets binned off for proper spec gear when you go racing though. Anyone know a 240 race team to ask them?

Hey, I'm not the one that starting talking about the myth of M135i springs. I was just pointing out that there is proof to backup that for many people they work.

 

[OneTwenty]

Dan, I do understand and get a lot of what you say, but I don't understand why you think that the M135i or 400lb (ish) spring is wrong.

No offence but for once youve actually got people with real life experience of using all sorts of diffs, 240 vs M2s and building racecars having an illuminating conversation here, if you want a one on one about M135i rear spring rates could I suggest FB messenger?

Particularly interesting that the 240 (and 235 before it) were what was made into racecars and not the M2, not surprised that the M stuff gets binned off for proper spec gear when you go racing though. Anyone know a 240 race team to ask them?

It's always been the same in a lot of tin top race series and I also often wondered why.

The BTCC BMW 1 series were based on the 125i, the new 3 series are based on the 320 I think.

Proper race teams never seem to start with an M or RS version of a car, maybe it's just down to pricing.

Andrew Jordan builds/runs 2 M235/240i race cars, proper things as well.

 

[docwra]

That looks fit, where can I buy a road legal one?

Interesting quote in here:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motorsport/new-328bhp-bmw-m235i-racing-sale-49k

"The firm's motorsport boss Jens Marquardt said: "The production models from the BMW M Performance Automobiles range are already incredibly sporty. Because of this, we did not have to make many modifications in order to get the BMW M235i Coupé up and running as a racing car."

Seems it also came with the same MPerformance diff and aero you can stick on your own 235i as well

 

[Spudulike]

The BTCC BMW 1 series were based on the 125i, the new 3 series are based on the 320 I think.

Proper race teams never seem to start with an M or RS version of a car, maybe it's just down to pricing.

The "cars" used as a base for BTCC are just shells. They cut everything off from the A pillar forward to mount the NGTC subframe and create their own mount points for the rear subframe. The engine (in the 330i) is a heavily reworked B48 by Neil Brown Engineering but pretty much everything else isn't BMW.

Mostly it's down to product positioning. In DTM they run an 'M4', in WEC they ran an 'M8'. BTCC requires the use of a 4 cylinder turbo so the product positioning fits with the 330i

 

[NISFAN]

It's always been the same in a lot of tin top race series and I also often wondered why.

The BTCC BMW 1 series were based on the 125i, the new 3 series are based on the 320 I think.

Proper race teams never seem to start with an M or RS version of a car, maybe it's just down to pricing.

Andrew Jordan builds/runs 2 M235/240i race cars, proper things as well.

Ooooh nice.

Tell you what, if I turned up at a racing event and there were two cars to choose from, a 235i Racing or a stock M2 competition, I know which one I'd be running to get into.

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[ABGSY]

Okay ending up ordering KW 2 Way Clubsports. Will be a few weeks but as soon as they are on I'll let you know.
Just trying to get the wheel/ tyre size maximised - ideally more than 245 on the front. If not it will be 245 square or 265 at back
Anyone done more then 245 tyre on the front?
Cheers

 

[marco_polo]

Would you be interested in fitting M2 bumper and front wings? That would make room for some wider rubber.

 

[ABGSY]

Mines a pre LCI so prob mean lights too
I'll stick with 245 and stick some camber in. Will be better than 225 which get ruined on the edges easily

 

[marco_polo]

Yup, it would mean 2er Xenon's too, which are a straight fit.

 

[ABGSY]

Having said that looks to be a sensible thing to do Marco
Any idea of where to look for the parts?
Cheers