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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just wondered if anyone else had noticed their 120d hesitating at around 2000rpm - most often experienced at light load on the accelerator in 4th/5th/6th gear then there is a pause when gently accelerating i.e. when you're in a queue on the motorway and then the lane clears - if you floor it it doesn't seem to happen.

On other older turbo diesels I've had I'd have called it turbo lag but on the 120d it feels more like a definite dip than anything: does anyone know if 2000rpm is where the turbo kicks in? Also I believe its getting more pronounced now [13,600 miles and six months old] than previously unless I'm getting paranoid!

Done some searches and can't find any similar reports on the 2.0 diesel. Any thoughts welcomed - otherwise I'll report it at the first service...
 

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I had a similar symptom in my 120d LCI.

It turn out being a default vacuum sensor on the turbo. The all turbo had to be replaced, since the sensor is coupled.

I wrote about it here in the forum.

Sometimes I still sense something like that you describe, but with my previous experience I just assume I'm paranoid... bu after all it's really a problem or a by-design feature!
 

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Hello Pitva,

I have a similar kind of 'problem'.
My 120d is accelerating fine along the entire rev-range but it sometimes hesitates to accept throttle. Takes half a second or something like that. Definitely not the turbo-lag, but an absence of power.
There is no logical pattern when it occurs. Sometimes everything OK for weeks, then again a couple of times per day.
Dealer doesn't know the problem (they say) and can't find anything strange in the OBD.

Have chosen to live with it...

Good luck!
 

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340Nm! said:
Hello Pitva,

I have a similar kind of 'problem'.
My 120d is accelerating fine along the entire rev-range but it sometimes hesitates to accept throttle. Takes half a second or something like that. Definitely not the turbo-lag, but an absence of power.
There is no logical pattern when it occurs. Sometimes everything OK for weeks, then again a couple of times per day.
Dealer doesn't know the problem (they say) and can't find anything strange in the OBD.

Have chosen to live with it...

Good luck!
That's what I had, maybe on 4 or 5 occasions in the exact same way you describe. Chose to live with it also but now my turbo has gone kaput.

Unsure if these 2 'issues' are at all related but wondering now if the hesitation was indeed turbo related, though I agree it's not typical 'lag'.
 

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My car exhibits hesitation after gearchange. It is most obvious when shifting from 2nd to 3rd. As Pitva suggests, it is actually more noticeable under gentle acceleration. However, for me the problem has improved now the car has a couple of thousand miles on the clock.

FYI - I had my turbo checked out by Cotswold Cheltenham. They said they couldn't get any data from it - it crashed the system. So, I'm waiting for the chief regional technician to take a look.

BTW - the tech I spoke with said that the new turbos are electric. This is different from the turbo on the old 163bhp 120d. Progress? Not convinced if the hesitation is a by-product.

:arrow: I think we need to unite, and tackle BMW GB with this. Seem to be a lot of disgruntled owners of these new models and as we all know, they're not cheap. We could have bought Golfs, A3s, even C Class Mercedes for the same money, but we chose the BMW. I think BMW is selling a substandard product for premium money...

Anyone out there want to join me? If so, message me.
 

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I'm starting to believe there will be a lot of problems with this turbos!!!

I can count a hand full of people with this kind of symptoms:
-happens at random
-hesitation when accelerating
-between 1400-2100 rpm
-more noticeable in 3rd gear
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Mine does seem to be getting more frequent unless I'm just more and more aware of it - did a couple of hundred miles today and I reckon it did it at least seven or eight times. I've had loads of turbo diesels [306, Passat, Mondeo to name a few] and none had this definate dip. Even my better half noticed it as a passenger today... hopefully it's something and nothing but I will get it checked at the service or sooner if it gets any worse.

The other wierd thing is it seems to be more prevalant when the engine is colder?
 

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@Griggsy

Thanks for your input!

Is that your Elise by the way? Great car! So far the only car I couldn't keep up with while racing the marvelous bend here at the highway entrance...
 

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Yep, it's the Elise that's meant to be unreliable but so far has proven to be bullet proof! Doesn't stop me replacing every perfectly good part with other more expensive parts for no good reason though. :banghead:
 

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I have to admit in 118d form have never had any hesitation wonder if any other 118d owners have it or just a 120d issue.
 

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Hi there,

Before turbo No2 blew up I also had a hesitation at 1700 rpm at light throttle inputs, just like the engine missing a beat. Car was registered 1st August 2007, 1st turbo failed at 3500 miles (electric actuator for variable geometry turbo failed) then 2nd also failed at 4800 miles (would not rev beyond 2500 rpm in any gear) Car has now been in dealers 2 weeks, parts not available in UK, having to come from Germany 4 week lead time.

The more I research this topic the more problems I can see with the 177PS 2.0D engine. BMW say they have no other issues in the UK, this is a clear and downright lie looking at other peoples problems.

I am going to expose this through auto express magazine as I have had quite enough of BMW's lies. This has gone on far enough, we all deserve some truth and some action.

I will keep the forum posted and let you all know when the article is published in Auto Express.

Mike
 

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Copy of my e-letter to Auto Express magazine to expose this BMW cover-up on this new engine:

Hi There,

I wonder if you can help me (and it appears many other drivers of this vehicle!)

The following is a message that I posted onto bmwland.co.uk to try and research the problems with my car, just to give you some background history:

Hi everybody, I have joined BMWland to see if anybody else has experienced the calamity that I have since taking delivery of my 120D SE 5dr in August 2007. The car is a really nice spec in Montego Blue, dynamic pack, visibility pack, convenience pack, professional audio, logic 7 speakers, heated front seats and luxury mats with a grey interior.

It pulled like a train for the first 3000 miles (after running in for 1000 miles) then in early September I was driving it one day and it would not rev above 2500 rpm in any gear. It would accelerate hard until it got to 2500 rpm then just stop dead, foot flat to the floor, until you selected the next higher gear. Then it would accelerate again until 2500 rpm in that gear and so on. Max speed was 80mph in 6th. If you pulled over, switched it off for 5 mins then set off again it was fine for a few days then it came back again.

There were no warning lights on the instrument display. I took it into my local supplying BMW dealer and they said, after a day off the road, that they could find nothing wrong with the car, no fault codes in memory. The following Saturday it happened again and I drove it straight to the dealers, did not switch it off and the service manager drove it to experience the fault. He agreed it was not right (an understatement) and took it straight onto the diagnostic machine where there were loads of error messages and fault codes.

They kept the car for nearly a week (gave me another 120D which was fine) and said that the variable geometry turbo actuator had failed and they had to change the whole turbo assembly as its serviced as a complete unit. 6 weeks old with 3000 miles on the clock and my new baby is getting the engine rebuilt- not impressed at all. It's a BMW for Gods sake.

Got the car back after a week and what a disappointment. Power and torque was down, it felt like an 05 118D (124ps) I complained and the car went in for another check, they said that there was nothing wrong with it! I made them take another 120D out and then made them drive mine and they then admitted that there was a significant difference and the car was booked in AGAIN!.

A week went by, on a trip back from York the engine developed a misfire at 1700rpm in any gear, like missing a beat. The rev counter whipped around and then settled down again. The following day coming back from Durham the engine failed going up a bank, the guy behind me nearly crashed into me. My foot was flat to the floor and hey presto, max 2500 rpm again!!

It was booked into the dealers on the Monday morning, I completely emptied the car, cable tied both sets of keys together and told the service manager that I refused to drive the car again until it was fixed. Apparently the 2nd turbo is also faulty, BMW have admitted that there is a manufacturing defect on the new efficient dynamic turbo assembly and they have quarantined all the turbos in stock. My car is now stuck in the dealers for a further 2 weeks, the parts are on back order with BMW (7-10 days +) and they can't give me a delivery date. I am absolutely disgusted.

I have a 120D SE 3dr (57 plate with 350 miles on) as a courtesy car, this also has a misfire at low speed so I guess that BMW have a serious problem on their hands.

If anybody else has experienced so issues with the 177PS 2.0 efficient dynamics diesel fitted to 1, 3 & 5 series can they get in touch through the forum to share information.

After some research on this forum and also babybmw .net it appears that I am not alone with this problem, there are many owners of the new 177PS diesel that are experiencing engine hesitation and complete failure. My car has now been in the local dealers for 2 weeks awaiting turbo no3, BMW UK tells me that parts are not available for a further 3-4 weeks from Germany and tell me that this is an isolated case; they have no other issues in the UK. This is a downright lie as we can see from these forums. BMW UK's attitude is very blasé and my new car will have been off the road for a total of 7 weeks out of 4 months by the time I get it back which is an absolute disgrace.

Can Auto express help by applying some pressure on BMW to get some truth out of them and either replacing my car and improving the delivery of parts. I don't really want the car back as it's unsafe and I want some compensation for my inconvenience.

I felt that I should expose this to Auto express as it's an absolute travesty that a quality car make such as BMW should get away with trying to cover up a major fault with a new engine. This efficient dynamics engine is now also fitted to the 3 series and 5 series and it's only going to be a matter of time before drivers of these models are also breaking down and experiencing similar problems.

If you want to discuss this with me in person my mobile number is XXXXXXXXXXXXX

Many thanks in advance,

Mike

Right, when I get a reply I will post it onto the forum.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Just to confirm mine's the pre-facelift with the lower power engine [163?] I've only had good experiences with BMW warranty so I'm hopeful if mine becomes an issue rather than an annoyance it'll be OK - last car was an E46 coupe which needed a new rear sub floor welding in - even though it was 7 years old and multi owners, they sorted it under a good will gesture. BMW for customer service generally are second only to Jag in my experience and I hope they remain so!
 

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I've had similar - maybe once every 1000 miles or so.

As you describe, it's like a hesitation in the turbo (almost like power loss) before is comes back fairly sharply, like a quick jab. It's the sharpness of the return of power that differentiates it from turbo lag (which is smoother and more like a smooth surge).

I've only had it as Pitva describes, in 5th and 6th gear (at 60/70mph), usually on a motorway when busy traffic clears and you accelerate (but not hard acceleration). Hasn't done it for a good while now - car now at 21.5k miles, built Aug/Sept 06.

The description of turbine geometry actuator fault would fit exactly with the symptoms....hmmmmmm. Maybe the solution is to regularly hoof the accelerator to keep everything 'free'. :lol:

If it starts doing it regularly it'll definitely be a trip to the dealer for mine... :roll:
 

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Hello, I confirm that the problems of loss of power also occur on the 118d. We're several on a french forum who have the problem. Is the turbo of the 118d the same of the 120d?
 

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The dealer called me yesterday to make an appointment since the service manager says he might have found a solution to this issue. I wonder whether he got some (internal) documentation for software update, bug fix or hardware malfunction. I'm there next Tuesday 11/27.

I must admit I had this issue with the 120d LCI pretty severely and after the most recent software update (done 10/22) the problem is not that big anymore (or did I just get used to it by now?).
 

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claude26, I'm pretty sure the 120d has a bigger turbo than the 118d

They function in the same way though, so a software problem as fret suggests could explain things.
 

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dantheman said:
claude26, I'm pretty sure the 120d has a bigger turbo than the 118d

They function in the same way though, so a software problem as fret suggests could explain things.
Thanks dantheman. Of course, it's a possibility. I'll go to my garage this week end for a small examination :wink:
 

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Posted: Sun 25 Nov, 2007 16:59 Post subject: Finally getting it back! Hurrah!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dealers called me on Friday 23rd November to say that the turbo (no3) is coming in Monday morning 26th November and I can collect the car that night. We shall then see how long this one lasts, hopefully it will be a problem fixed. Will still be pushing for compo, lets see what they cough up!

I will report back what happens as time goes by.

Then its the tuning box to be fitted, using a Dragon unit that was fitted to my honda civic 2.2 i-CDTi, made a big difference to that so hoping for the same on my beemer. Needs to go back to Dragon for a re-map and lead change which they charge a reasonable £65.00. This includes taking the old lead in part ex, the dragon guys are spot on, nothing is too much trouble and you get a 3 years warranty on the box.

I will also let you know how performance is after fitting, expecting an increase from 177ps to 220ps and 350Nm to 440Nm so should make a huge difference, will eat 330D for breakfast i think. :twisted
 
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