Matt’s Road & Track m140

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THETYRANT
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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by THETYRANT » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:44 pm

Matt Scarbro wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:03 pm

Cheers Ian, I do like Koni Sports myself, probably what I should have done from the outset with this car, but at least it’s sorted now and I think I’ve got something more capable than I would have had with the Konis in the end.

How are you getting on with the MR2? I’ve always fancied one! 8)
The Koni sports do make a nice allrounder road/occasional/ low budget track setup but i think your right what you have now is far more capable longterm, spring rate and ride heights are another issue when you stick with a stock strut type so for what your doing more adjustment is the key :)

MR2 is good fun for very little money, ive done 2 x half days on track with it so far, 1st was very cold/wet december at Oulton just after buying it and it scared me to death! what with dodgy/loose suspension fixing from previous owners sloppy workmanship and old/poor tyres, hence only doing half a day!.....2nd one at cadwell couple of weeks ago was dry and this time with new Federal RSR tyres, suspension properly tightened up (still stock dampers just lowering springs) and it was a much better day learning what the car can and cant do, just like a stock MX5 they lack power down the straights but its a whole heap of fun in the twistys chasing other cars :D....there is a lot to learn from the chassis finding how brave you can be and now with decent dampers keeping body under control i will be able to push/explore more next time, extra power may come later in year but for now i will just enjoy it as is trundling down the straights and braking as little as possible for the corners :D

Ian
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

Matt Scarbro
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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by Matt Scarbro » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:19 am

THETYRANT wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:44 pm
MR2 is good fun for very little money, ive done 2 x half days on track with it so far, 1st was very cold/wet december at Oulton just after buying it and it scared me to death! what with dodgy/loose suspension fixing from previous owners sloppy workmanship and old/poor tyres, hence only doing half a day!.....2nd one at cadwell couple of weeks ago was dry and this time with new Federal RSR tyres, suspension properly tightened up (still stock dampers just lowering springs) and it was a much better day learning what the car can and cant do, just like a stock MX5 they lack power down the straights but its a whole heap of fun in the twistys chasing other cars :D....there is a lot to learn from the chassis finding how brave you can be and now with decent dampers keeping body under control i will be able to push/explore more next time, extra power may come later in year but for now i will just enjoy it as is trundling down the straights and braking as little as possible for the corners :D
Sounds like my kind of car Ian! :)
I can see them becoming more and more popular amongst trackdayers.

I’ve got a couple of friends building 2ZZ powered cars, which seems a nice cost effective upgrade. I’m promised a drive once one is done so I look forward to seeing how they compare to the MX5s!
M140i road & track project

‘66 M140i Black 3dr Auto, 459bhp
Lots of chassis mods to make it useable!

Other fun stuff — MX2000 ‘charged Honda-powered MX5 / ITB’d vvt-swapped MX5 / CR-X Si vtec swapped

Circuit:Driver YouTube

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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by Matt Scarbro » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:34 am

Current state of the car...

Image

255 AD08R on the front, 225 CC+ on the rear Image

I needed a 10mm spacer to clear the coilovers, the tightest part was the rim protection of the tyre lining up with a lip on the lower body just below the bottom locking collar. With 10mm it’s tight, so I might buy some 12mm spacers as I understand they’re the smallest that can be bought as properly hubcentric?

Image

The ride height went up few mm after this picture was taken, but no scrubbing on the arch after a good run.
Both TPMS sensors work so far too.

So the plan of action now is to get some 12mm spacers bought, get the other pair of tyres fitted and get the rears on, figuring out what size spacers will be best there too.
Then I need to fit the M4 LCAs and rear underbody brace, in fact I might get a garage to do that as I don’t have a lift.
Then it will be time for alignment and arch rollling, followed by some hooning! Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
M140i road & track project

‘66 M140i Black 3dr Auto, 459bhp
Lots of chassis mods to make it useable!

Other fun stuff — MX2000 ‘charged Honda-powered MX5 / ITB’d vvt-swapped MX5 / CR-X Si vtec swapped

Circuit:Driver YouTube

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THETYRANT
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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by THETYRANT » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:14 am

Matt Scarbro wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:19 am

Sounds like my kind of car Ian! :)
I can see them becoming more and more popular amongst trackdayers.

I’ve got a couple of friends building 2ZZ powered cars, which seems a nice cost effective upgrade. I’m promised a drive once one is done so I look forward to seeing how they compare to the MX5s!
Similar but very different at same time to the MX5, midengine on the 2 really does change the way it feels but I think its the lightness of both that makes them so much fun! 2zz swap is one of options im looking at for future but would also like to go forced induction maybe and turbo'ing the stock motor yields reasonable numbers as well but packaging it all in the rear makes decent cooling difficult, so I think an engine swap will be on cards either the 2ZZ or a company in Hull is developing a Vag 1.8T swap kit which looks very promising, those engines are cheap and bullet proof with great tuning potential, although a solid reliable 200hp would be plenty I think.
Problem with the 2ZZ is to do it properly its not that cheap and in stock form they don't like track use it seems with many letting go, uprating oil pump, sump etc is required to get track reliability it seems, worth advising your friends of this if they are just dropping in a stock 2zz without modding it and taking on track.
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

docwra
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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by docwra » Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:32 pm

I had a 1ZZ ZZW30, I now have a 2ZZ ZZW30. The 1ZZ is an awesome car for teaching you how to drive properly, its so balanced and responsive but doesnt have the power to get you into big trouble. The 2ZZ is a gamechanger, same balance and response but enough power to start worrying the big boys, its actually a genuinely fast car.

I personally think a turbo would ruin the experience as youd lose throttle control and the midrange torque would be too much, Im reliably informed that they become somewhat undriveable over 300hp as well.

Pump and sump, LSD and 6 speed are essential for the swap, I bought one already done as its a lot less hassle. Why people continue to buy MX5's rather these is beyond me :lol:

MartijnGizmo
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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by MartijnGizmo » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:02 pm

You can get hubcentric spacers in 10mm as well, just fitted some to the front of my mates M135i.

Blind Pugh
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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by Blind Pugh » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:34 pm

MartijnGizmo wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:02 pm
You can get hubcentric spacers in 10mm as well, just fitted some to the front of my mates M135i.
Yup and also available in 7.5mm thk

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3390 ... /?pdk=AgQC
Fettled M135i EB AT - gone but not forgotten !
AW M2 DCT

deanw
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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by deanw » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:09 am

I’ve now had a change of mind! Think I’m going to sell the Clio 200 cup and look to use the 140i and add some bits to make it ready for track.

Did Oulton on Tuesday and I love the Clio, grip is insane but it’s too slow on the straights and my friends are just leaving me in The RS.

One question I have though before I start.. is the 3 series not a better platform to start from than the 1 series?

Also been asked a million times but do the lowering springs make a decent improvement on handling or are they more cosmetic on these cars.

I’m thinking I’d maybe do brake upgrades and lowering springs to start with and see how that makes things..

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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by docwra » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:15 pm

deanw wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:09 am
One question I have though before I start.. is the 3 series not a better platform to start from than the 1 series?

Also been asked a million times but do the lowering springs make a decent improvement on handling or are they more cosmetic on these cars.

I’m thinking I’d maybe do brake upgrades and lowering springs to start with and see how that makes things..
1 series is lighter, 3 series is supposedly stiffer, take your pick but Id go for lightness every time. Anything that lowers your CoG will improve handling, stiffer springs give better body control which will also be an advantage but ARB's would do the same to a greater extent.

Decent pads and decent fluid should be all you need brakewise :)

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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by marco_polo » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:57 pm

deanw wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:09 am
Also been asked a million times but do the lowering springs make a decent improvement on handling or are they more cosmetic on these cars.
Stiffer springs can make handling better, lower springs can make things worse - although adding a little front negative camber (via lowering a McPherson set-up) can be useful sometimes.

Do lots of homework on Roll Centre if you're interested in why lowering a production car excessively can be counter-productive, but basically you want the roll centre and CoG to be as close as possible.

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Silver F21 M135i - ManBox - HK - Adaptive + Eibach Pro's - BBS CH-R's - BMWP Drexler LSD - M4 LCA's

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Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by Matt Scarbro » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:26 am

Right, I finally have a square 255 on 8.5” setup on the car with no scrubbing, details as follows:

441m 18x8.5 et47 (optional 3/4 series wheels)
Two pairs of rears to make a square set
255/35/18 Yokohama AD08Rs all round

10mm front spacers
5mm rear (may remove these)

Meister R GT1 coilovers with adjustable camber plates
Standard LCAs
No arch work

Alignment is yet to be set up properly, but I have added -ve camber with the plates at the front. Max -ve camber required to clear with 15mm spacers, can now adjust around the top quarter of available camber with 10mm spacers).
I have set it up temporarily with an old bubble gauge so don’t have figures.

M3/4 LCAs are waiting to go on the car (I like to make changes one at a time if possible), so will get the alignment done properly once they’re on. I fully expect an arch roll will be necessary at this point.

I really like how the car looks with these wheels on, just what I hoped to achieve! Image
The well trodden path seems to be dark wheels, dark lights, splitters etc. so I wanted to do something different and hoped that the bright silver wheels with the concave design and wider track would provide a muscular look, with the lighter colour and design making the wheels look bigger than they are. Image

Image

Image

Image

So, impressions... predictably grip has gone up!! Front to rear balance has improved as hoped and the sensation of having to coax the front end into corners has all but gone, I suspect the LCAs and a bit of setup will complete the transformation here!

Tramlining is increased, notably at times though I should stress that some of the roads around here are terrible and really highlight the effect. Happily road noise hasn’t increased markedly, with tyre roar still comparable to M4 levels.

The brakes don’t feel great at the moment, so I can’t really report back, but fully expect there to be a fairly big improvement there.

On the topic of brakes, I think I’m coming to the conclusion that the discs are to blame.
I’ve changed the front pads to some Yellowstuff I got cheaply (probably not the best purchasing reason, but dedicated track pads are to come), resurfaced the rears as they were glazed, and bled the callipers as recommended by Ian. I haven’t done many miles since, so perhaps the pads will wear to match the disc surface, but I’m not terribly hopeful and have been eyeing up some OEM replacement Brembos.

Image

I’m also due to be having the MPBBK brake coding done by Mr. Wibbles, so it would be nice if that made a difference too!

In other news the dry weather and summer tyres have revealed just what a fast car this is now!! In the winter conditions I took to dicking about on the CC+s, but a few opportunities to wind out the beast have shown it to be seriously potent, dare I suggest even more so than the M4...

We’ve got a driving trip planned at the weekend, up to the Scottish Borders with a nice mix of cars. Should be fun and an opportunity to stretch its legs! Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
M140i road & track project

‘66 M140i Black 3dr Auto, 459bhp
Lots of chassis mods to make it useable!

Other fun stuff — MX2000 ‘charged Honda-powered MX5 / ITB’d vvt-swapped MX5 / CR-X Si vtec swapped

Circuit:Driver YouTube

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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by MartijnGizmo » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:46 pm

I have to agree, looks great with silver wheels!

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mikeh
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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by mikeh » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:23 am

Silver wheels are the best, so clean looking :)

I must have had one of the only white E92 M3s with silver wheels :lol:

Image_DSC6216.jpg by mikehhhhhhh, on Flickr

What wheels are they?

Matt Scarbro
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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by Matt Scarbro » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:39 am

Doesn’t get much better than that Mikey! 8)

They’re a 3/4 series option wheel (441m), two pairs of rears.
M140i road & track project

‘66 M140i Black 3dr Auto, 459bhp
Lots of chassis mods to make it useable!

Other fun stuff — MX2000 ‘charged Honda-powered MX5 / ITB’d vvt-swapped MX5 / CR-X Si vtec swapped

Circuit:Driver YouTube

Matt Scarbro
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Location: Lincs

Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by Matt Scarbro » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:13 am

I’ve been really enjoying the car I’ve the past few days, and on the somewhat arbitrary Matt’s subjective comparison to an M4 0 being a stock 140 and 10 an M4 CP scale I’d give it a 5 as things are! :lol:

The brakes feel like a weakness at the moment so you have to concentrate on braking too much which detracts from fluidity of the drive (what utter spiel :oops: ) and you can tell it needs setting up properly. The front end, though improved massively still doesn’t have the positivity and accuracy of the M4 and the rear is still not as planted.
M140i road & track project

‘66 M140i Black 3dr Auto, 459bhp
Lots of chassis mods to make it useable!

Other fun stuff — MX2000 ‘charged Honda-powered MX5 / ITB’d vvt-swapped MX5 / CR-X Si vtec swapped

Circuit:Driver YouTube

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