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E87 base audio upgrade

8K views 29 replies 4 participants last post by  Dogpipebeard 
#1 ·
I'm about to upgrade the base audio in my new to me 2006 E87.
The HU has been swapped to a Professional already but needs to have the Aux recoded.
I've already put components in the doors. As I immediately then ordered a leather interior I'll have to do those again though :rollseyes: . No problem with that, second door took me half an hour.

Input on the two options please:
1) Stay OEM ish, recode HU and fit USB hub, add plug and play ish Audiotec Fischer 5 ch amp with DSP and their under seat 8s.
Pros: OE look, relatively straightforward.
Cons: base audio spec means no amp wiring harness in rear (can't find one) to take advantage of plug and play ease. The tweeters, mids and 8s share a channel. I don't really want to amp the rears. Don't want a proper sub.

2) Go full aftermarket: DEH80PRS, Eton 100.4 channel, amp the components and new 8s separately.
Pros: Will sound good - had a similar set-up previously. Bluetooth OK and twin USB.
Cons: Aftermarket look, bit complicated, but doable. All in about a grand in cost, so more than OE option 1. Will be tricky to switch back to stock.

I have plenty of time off to do the installation, have done a couple before. I'm not convinced the amp isn't a bit thick for the boot floor recess (55mm). Floor might sit on the amp a bit, but they don't get that hot. Car is a keeper for a few years.

I guess I'm looking for folk to reassure me about option 2. The stock audio is a mess of coding and proprietary willful wiring. Who has done it and can share wisdom? Have seen a post on E90 where a guy does a similar install on a 120D. Not many other installs though: keen for pics of boot amp install especially!

What would you do?
 
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#2 ·
If it was between the two of them I'd go with option 2, but what about an option 3 - Genuine BMW Alpine audio upgrade kit?

£350ish from Cotswold for an amp, two mid speakers, two tweeters and all wiring/crossovers needed. Not difficult to install, fully OEM, no coding required (other than coding in your pro HU). My car is base audio/Pro HU but had two hifi subs installed by a previous owner which are more than powerful enough to complement the Alpine bits.

Whilst I was installing it I swapped in the rear trim pieces from a Logic7 car so that I can install better speakers and a pair of tweeters at the back at some point. Tbh I'd genuinely consider another Alpine kit to do that, it's good enough that my original idea of a full Logic7 retrofit is dead and buried.

FYI if you don't amp the rears and you recode the car from base to hifi the PDC pings will apparently be uselessly quiet.
 
#3 ·
That's a good suggestion Nyxeris. For the 350 I'd get a sufficient amp and most importantly the wiring. Does it separate the door components and the under seats? I guess not if it amps the rears.

The car's going in to an indie tomorrow for stuff, one minor thing being the aux recode. Might get them to do hifi then too. The components I'm using have an external crossover and high pass so should be OK either way with or without the source signal eq

Eta: with components in the rear it might be ok anyway.
Just never been a big fan of rear sound.

Thanks for option 3!
 
#4 ·
As standard the Alpine upgrade kit only affects the front speakers, I referenced the rear because I would consider buying another identical kit to install for the back as well. Sorry if that wasn't clear, !

I think the under-seats are seperated already and they simply get amped. The kit is designed to be compatible with all speaker/HU combinations short of Logic7 (from which it's not an upgrade); the supplied crossovers seperate the A-pillar tweeters and the door speakers, the supplied wiring harness has multiple connectors (all labelled) and you use the one appropriate to the car's current equipment.

You could always ask the guy to test your setup - code the car to hifi, stick it in reverse and have someone walk up on it to test the pings, if they're too quiet then recode to base. Shouldn't take very long at all.
 
#5 ·
Don't apologise, I assumed the alpine kit would power the front 3 ways and the rears (4 channel amp). It appears though that it separates the door components from the underseats and powers those 4 channels, leaving the rears unaffected as you say. In pre09 cars the 'fronts' are I think the door + floor drivers per side.

So in short the alpine kit seems to do the job. Here's a link to a pic of the inputs/outputs for anyone else looking into it.
These are a bit too proprietary for me, but I like the integration.

Another plug and play wiring option seems to be this adapter kit. I mailed about it and the reply was a bit cryptic, but the build I mentioned in the first post used it and he's been doing them for years. Still trying to get my head around the stock wiring though

Would allow the use of any amp (incl. DSP) but have a non-invasive install using the stock HU just like the Alpine kit.

Anyway right now I don't even have aux in active and no USB plug :censored2: hopefully tomorrow but I expect bumps in that road
 
#6 ·
As suspected, the indie refused to do the Aux recode because 'liability' reasons. So I've ordered the cable and downloaded the software and will do it myself. Tomorrow: attempt to remove center console to fit USB cable

On the audio front, currently swinging towards option '3.5'. Keep Professional HU but add non standard amp. Only if aux or USB work though. Want a quadlock adapter too so I don't have to butcher any stock wiring.
 
#7 ·
Sod's law continues. I removed the center console to put the USB port and cable in. Also needed to remove a 50p that was blocking the ashtray lid. On removing the HU, saw that it wasn't one with a separate USB in. :rollseyes:

I did download NCS Expert and ordered a DCAN cable to code Aux though, and bought the 'right' HU and will pick up on Thursday. The seller will code Aux and USB for me.
Also bought a plug and play 6 channel amp with DSP, and some new under seat 8s. The new interior comes tomorrow so will redo the door card speakers with some foil damping sheets.

Sounds OK (CDs) already with the tweeters at least. :)
 
#8 ·
Satan interferes with my progress yet again. Steady rain all day means the interior swap has been postponed til tomorrow.

However, the audio kit arrived, I've finished the set up of NCS Expert on my laptop, and the car has been given a thumbs up from local suspension specialists, and will go in for new brake reaction bushes and alignment in 2 weeks.

Tomorrow:
Strip interior
Fit amp and 8s
Fit new interior
Collect and code new HU
Drink heavily :celebrate:
 
#9 ·
Would be very interested to see how this goes and would welcome any advice on a install.

Currently have pro hav HU with base audio, so looking to upgrade sound system. Ideally would like components up front, updated subs and all amped.

No idea how to do the above, as in do I have to

run RCA from HU?
Run new wires/ spice current loom?
Proper looms available?
4 ch amp for mids and subs?

Been a lot of years since I updated a stero. Use to be easy.
 
#10 ·
6rad said:
Would be very interested to see how this goes and would welcome any advice on a install.

Currently have pro hav HU with base audio, so looking to upgrade sound system. Ideally would like components up front, updated subs and all amped.
Again the OEM Alpine upgrade kit is a great option here. Pair it with genuine (used) hifi subs and it punches well above its price.
 
#11 ·
Nyxeris said:
6rad said:
Would be very interested to see how this goes and would welcome any advice on a install.

Currently have pro hav HU with base audio, so looking to upgrade sound system. Ideally would like components up front, updated subs and all amped.
Again the OEM Alpine upgrade kit is a great option here. Pair it with genuine (used) hifi subs and it punches well above its price.
Cheers, I was thinking about this, or maybe using aftermarket amp to give better control over some uprated subs? read the crossover on the alpine wasn't that great?

Think I'm confused about is, if I use a aftermarket amp do I use rca from the HU and code it, or do I wire the amp from the front speaker sires (like the alpine kit).... Guess I would then need speaker to rca converter?
 
#12 ·
Nyxeris said:
If it was between the two of them I'd go with option 2, but what about an option 3 - Genuine BMW Alpine audio upgrade kit?

£350ish from Cotswold for an amp, two mid speakers, two tweeters and all wiring/crossovers needed. Not difficult to install, fully OEM, no coding required (other than coding in your pro HU). My car is base audio/Pro HU but had two hifi subs installed by a previous owner which are more than powerful enough to complement the Alpine bits.

Whilst I was installing it I swapped in the rear trim pieces from a Logic7 car so that I can install better speakers and a pair of tweeters at the back at some point. Tbh I'd genuinely consider another Alpine kit to do that, it's good enough that my original idea of a full Logic7 retrofit is dead and buried.

FYI if you don't amp the rears and you recode the car from base to hifi the PDC pings will apparently be uselessly quiet.
Struggling to find Cotswold to pick up the alpine kit?
 
#14 ·
Cheers mate... also found part of a logic 7 (NO AMP) going cheap.. MIight buy to just use the speakers... Pretty sure I can do that, don't need the loom?
 
#15 ·
6rad said:
Cheers mate... also found part of a logic 7 (NO AMP) going cheap.. MIight buy to just use the speakers... Pretty sure I can do that, don't need the loom?
No worries.

Base audio doesn't have tweeters or a second second sub, so you'll at the very least need the speaker grilles and probably the sub's wiring harness too.

There's a sticky at the top of this section with all the options and diagrams I think - I can only comment on the bits I've done!
 
#16 ·
There's no RCA out on the Professional HUs I have, maybe the nav one has it. I would agree that sticking to a plug and play solution is enough in most cases. I bought an Audiotec Fischer Match set up that was pretty straightforward to fit. The plus for me over the Alpine kit was the DSP.

For a gradual step by step upgrade over base set up:
1 Fit tweeters. Easy and cheap. Good uplift. 50-100 quid
2 Fit plug n play amp. Quite straightforward. Requires pulling the HU, fitting plug and play harness, pulling kick panel, sill panels, rear seat squabs to run the ISO cable to boot (5m). Will only give you 40ish amps per channel but will go pretty loud without distortion. Will cost c. 400 quid. No need to wire to power separately. Big plus.
3 Fit new door mids. Most of what you want to hear in music is covered by their frequency range. When you do it, stick some dynamat or skins on the door cards. Lots of price options. The stock ones aren't terrible though so you'll have to spend a bit for a good improvement. Plus, the 3 screw bmw pattern limits options unless you use an adapter ring, which robs space. Easy job.
4 Fit new under seat 8s.They're not really subs but the frequency range (50-150ish) is felt rather than heard. It's a pita to lift the seats but 4 screws each speaker plus covers and job done. 4 big torx screws per seat though and they're flipping heavy. If you remove completely you'll have to disconnect battery to unplug them. Plug and play options available (they are run off the same channel as the doors). Cost 100 up (and some epithets whilst fitting)
5 Go aftermarket HU and amp. Removes ridiculous BMW audio in coding nonsense, but honestly, pay someone else to do it. The last one I had like this in a Defender sounded unreal and was super neat and flexible. Cost 3 grand though :)
 
#17 ·
I fitted the new seats and audiotec fischer kit yesterday. Picked up new USB capable Professional HU. Lovely seller coded it. Aux and USB now available (and some other options)
BUT neither input works :rollseyes: USB doesn't recognise anything plugged in, and the aux just sits and hisses slightly no matter what is plugged in. I would try a new cable and plug but I'm so sick of pulling the center console I'm going to leave it until hell freezes over.
Luckily I bought a Bluetooth module for the PP62DSP and that works (HU doesn't need to be turned on, controlled from phone directly). Have downloaded the DSP app and will try to get it sounding nice today. Also, will switch the door cards over to the leather ones and fit damping material.
 
#18 ·
Progress made today. Interior is finished, I put quite of lot of sound deadening material on the door cards. See pic.
Discovered reason for no aux: cable had become unattached with the constant removal/refitting of the console. Now works (through HU)
Set up the DSP software with the phone directly connected to the amp via aptx Bluetooth. Did a rough time alignment and equalization. Sounds pretty good now. Will do a pink noise analysis and let the amp do a real time analysis once I get a measurement mic sorted.

Still can't get USB working, but will try a small, freshly formatted USB stick. Otherwise I'll stick to aux in or the direct connection.
 

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#19 ·
Things have moved on slowly to the point now where I'm pretty much done. Things of note:
1) The main issue with the base audio is the front 2 way components. No, not the lack of tweeters, that's very easily fixed, but rather that once you've done that, you now have 2 channels powering a pair of 3 way components. The tweeters, door mids and the seat woofers. The Pro HU only puts out 15w per channel, so it's never going to be clear/loud, the woofers are doing next to nothing, and even if you amp the front channels, the crossover from woofers to mids leaves the puny 4"s in the doors reaching too low, making a terrible job of kick bass for example. Sounds like a retard banging 4 by 2 on your roof.
The hifi has the floor woofers powered separately from the door components.
2) To get around 1), you need to amp the woofers separately, which luckily is pretty easy. Bonus points if you bought replacement woofers with dual 2ohm voice coils, and your '6 channel' dsp/amp actually has 8 channels, with 5,6,7,8 able to run all four coils of the pair of floor woofers. The Audio Fischer bits I bought: PP62DSP, PP-SC sub cable, mw8bmw, - by chance nailed the above. You do need to power/ground the amp directly. The boot position makes this super easy though.
3) it's worth reading the flipping manual, the AF website has various sound tuning guides, and once you've gone through the time alignment, and bought an USB measurement mic, got your pink noise sorted, you can fiddle about working out how to do the EQ across the full frequency range.
4) Having the Bluetooth module (HEC) also means that a) you have no wires from phone, b) the Head unit doesn't even need to be on, and the signal is flat. The stock signal from the HU in non hifi mode is actually pretty good, but it's not flat. You should not try to just run a sub off the rear channel speaker wires. The sub frequencies are attenuated. There's a great post on another form with the analysis done c) you can assign the BT HEC input in any combination to any output channel. I've turned off the ridiculous rear shelf units. I like front stage, the front setup doesn't need any help, the dog hates music and I'm usually on my own in this car.
5) 35W doesn't sound much, but a super clean signal to the front components (I have the AF match fitted, pretty cheap) and a bit (+10db) of input gain on the HEC (done from within the DSP software) makes it too loud to listen to from a phone over aptx Bluetooth at 3/4 volume on the phone.
6) I'm not even sure how much power is going to each floor woofer, I think 2x 50w at 2ohm per driver = total 200W for frequencies below c. 150Hz but blinking heck it's enough to thump the air out of your lungs on the right track. I've actually turn the gain right down in the DSP for the woofer channels (treated as 2 channels) so it blends nice.
7) Using the auto EQ function in little chunks throughout the range it's possible achieve a near perfect reference response curve. It seems our cars have a big issue at c. 500-650 Hz, but this is nearly ironed out completely. Takes a few goes and every change to crossover points in the DSP (I still need to try lower on the mid to woofer crossover for richer deep vocals) means you have to redo the auto EQ around that point.
8. ) A clean and simple 2 way component plus 8" setup can sound pretty ****ing nice with a bit of DSP finegling.

Next step: use the spare output channel pair (from defunct rears) to go fully active for the door components). The AF external crossover was disappointing at the woofer/mid border crossing so letting the DSP take the tweet to mid on too will involve more tuning, but will almost certainly sound better, and come with the bonus of doubling the power delivered to the doors.
Next next step: Research a bit and find a quality set of mids/tweets to refine further. Stupid bmw 3 hole pattern makes this unnecessarily difficult, so might well use my spare door cards (that no-one even wants for free) to experiment with a 3 hole to 4 hole adaptor. I don't think a 5.25 will fit behind the handle but I'll hack up my spares to find out.

Any questions, ask.
Tl/dr:
Don't think that throwing an amp at your base stereo will do anything worthwhile
 
#20 ·
Hey,

How you finding the match Fischer set up?

Looking at maybe getting the same. Is the sound quality worth the premium tag?

Where did you source yours from and was it a decent price?

To be honest, it's between the match amp, sub and components and power the subs independently same as you......
or just for for vibe micro amp powering the MTX TX6 set up (sub and components) 2nd option I can do much cheaper obviously.

Cheers
 
#21 ·
Also why did you have yonpower amp directly from battery. Thought this could be powered via HU harness?
 
#22 ·
I bought everything from Horst at allwoodsaudio on the bay. Nice guy that will put you the whole package together and list it exactly how you want it. To run the 8s separately you have to power the amp. It does work over the harness though. Amp in in the boot next to the battery so no big deal anyway. Do you have base or hifi? Whatever you buy, get a DSP. Makes all the difference. For the AF setup you need to get the DSP, harness, 5m long ISO cable, ISO cable for the underseat 8s, the 8s themselves, the components for the doors, some speaker wire, connectors, ground/power cables, and highly recommended either the BT or USB module. You can completely bypass the HU and rely on the (pretty good) DSP's DAC. The DSP software takes some getting used to but after the nth iteration of tuning it's pretty intuitive.
If you want to go all in and screw the budget, get a Helix P SIX, but it's not plug n play
 
#24 ·
Thanks for the reply, so I would be better puttibgvthe amp in the boot then? Was advised to just stick on behind the glove box And power the subs off the harness?

I might donas you advised and just leave the subs for now. I assume the snow would then power the subs, mids and tweeter of the front 2 channels?
 
#25 ·
If you want to power the underseat 8s properly, you need need to feed them separately from the door 4s. AF say to use battery power to do that. If you put the pp62DSP in the boot, it's a 10 minute job to do this. You just need to run some speaker cables to the underseats. Take off the stock cable from them, and connect the new direct cables. The AF ISO cable from the AF harness behind the HU will power your door 4s plug n play. Of course, you should add tweeters. Stock tweeters plug into the 4s. AF components use a crossover. Either way it's an easy job per door.
If you need a sub afterwards, go fo it. I listen to some music with strong bass lines, and a separate sub is unnecessary for me. The AF software with the DSP shows the response is pretty good down to 40 hertz.
 
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